german study:retinoic acid causes loss!

johnnywalker

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tupperware said:
Thank you for this very good post, Willy Wonka! It's been known for a long time that Retin-A can cause hair loss. It's one of the well known side effects of Roaccutane, a medicine to treat acne fulgaris.

I've no clue why Dr. Lee is still selling this stuff in his minoxidil, where it has probably only an adverse effect on hair growth.


thats great to hear, since i have been taking xandrox 5% 2x/day for exactly 1 year.
(Hair has gotten worse since taking it)
In addition, my hair did not change during the prior 2 years of only taking 1mg propecia/day.
 
G

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Oh don't you worry, there's no Retin-A in his Xandrox. It's only in one specific type of his minoxidil line.
 
G

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Good Lord you are right! But it's not standard.

So I would recommend NOT to buy Xandrox with Retin-A, but the standard Xandrox, or, even better: the standard minoxidil.

And I guess Dr Lee is not much of a good dermatologist if he's selling HAIR GROWTH STIMULANTS with Retin-A in it. :?
 

willywonka

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willywonka said:
don't use retin-a
granted this is just my opinion. Also, it seems that there is always counter studies on everything.
 

willywonka

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Bryan said:
Besides the issue that it was an in vitro study, there is also the possibility of a biphasic effect: Retin-A may stimulate hair growth in carefully-chosen topical doses (Bazzano et al), but it may well be toxic to hair follicles in larger doses (BTW, the same appears to be true for minoxidil).

Bryan
I would say this is the most logical idea going. Sorry, didn't mean to scare. Although its a good idea to post studies anyway they go.
 
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Bryan said:
Besides the issue that it was an in vitro study, there is also the possibility of a biphasic effect: Retin-A may stimulate hair growth in carefully-chosen topical doses (Bazzano et al), but it may well be toxic to hair follicles in larger doses (BTW, the same appears to be true for minoxidil).

Bryan
Bryan, the Bazzano study is a complete farce. Absolutely unreliable and well outdated.
 

twmajors

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Jesus, can we make up our minds already?
Does Retin-A promote hair loss or aid in hair restoration?
I just friggin ordered some and added it to my regimen because I had seen multiple sources that claimed it aided in minoxidil absorption.
Does anyone out there know what the hell they're talking about?
 

dead

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twmajors said:
Jesus, can we make up our minds already?
Does Retin-A promote hair loss or aid in hair restoration?
I just friggin ordered some and added it to my regimen because I had seen multiple sources that claimed it aided in minoxidil absorption.
Does anyone out there know what the hell they're talking about?

yeah me too, I am a little lost on this one, to add to the confusion Dr Told me not to use Retin-A with Xandrox 15 as it may cause too much minoxidil to be absorped ????? (after I had bought a couple of bottles :roll: )
 

Cornholio

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In addition to the Bazzano study there in another positive retin-a study... Dr Lewenberg (who also sells a minoxidil/retin-a combo and has since around 1990) claims to have seen benefit in adding retin-a to minoxidil... In the linked interview below he says that retin-a helps minoxidil hairs grow stronger, and that increasing minoxidil alone doesn't produce as much healthy hair. (sure, he sells it, but says he has seen it work).

https://www.advancesintherapy.com/detail.aspx?ID=67 "study"
https://www.advancesintherapy.com/detail.aspx?ID=67 "interview"
http://www20.addr.com/~baldspot/formula2.html "claims"

I cant find other "studies," and doubt that anyone will pay for large randomized studies involving a cheap ingredient like retin-a. This (and the Bazzano study) may be the only clinical experience published... Please post other studies if you can find them.
 

willywonka

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Thanks for your input Cornholio. seriously
 

Cornholio

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TynanW said:
Dr Told me not to use Retin-A with Xandrox 15 as it may cause too much minoxidil to be absorped ?????

In addition to its ?possible? independant effects on hair, retin-a increases the absorption of minoxidil by a factor of 3.... 3 times 15 (xanadrox 15) = xanadrox 45 :eek:nfire: .... I have xanadrox 12.5, so with retin-a that's only xanadrox 37.5... Its working on the temples though : )

PS> WilleyWonka... sure, its good to look into the topic. Dont want to kill hair : )
 

dead

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Cornholio when do you use your Retinoic-Acid ? with Minoxidil or a few hours apart, how long do you let it sit on your scalp and how much do you use ???????


question questions questions
 

Cornholio

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Im using Dr. Lee's 5%minoxidil with retin-a included near bedtime without problem... I use his regular 5% minoxidil in the morning. I also use Xanadrox 12.5% at the temples at night (I get most of my irritation from the azelaic acid in xanadrox it seems... the others don't bother me much). The retin-a/minoxidil could be used less frequently if you noticed irritation (substituting regular minoxidil instead). I apply spironolactone 2% separately, at night.

I'll probably try to wean my regimine down after a few more months if im sure things have thickened up, as I think that daily retin-a/%5 minoxidil may be enough for maintenence. That would leave me with Dutasteride, retin-A/minoxidil once a day, spironolactone 2% nightly and tricomin... I could always add spironolactone %5 or xanadrox 12.5% if problem areas arise. Sounds excessive, and maybe it is, but it seems like a good plan. "More is better."
 

DJW

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This interesting because I have felt for awhile that my use of Vit. A derivative acne medications induced my hair loss. In August of 2003 I began a course of minocycline and Differin (Adapalene Gel). Starting in October or so of that year I began to notice that my hair was creeping back in the rounded regions where your hairline meets your temples. Not really sure what to think, I tried to pass it off as poor diet possibly. In mid-December I was prescriped Tretinoin gel in addition to the Differin, and by February I noticed a noticeable difference in thickness in my hair all over the top, with the recession I had noticed before.

Hoping that it wasn't male pattern baldness I did a lot of reading online and came across many stories of people with thinning hair as a result of accutane. Knowing that Tretinoin and Differin were somewhat related topicals, I went to my dermatologist. He didn't think it was possible that topicals could absorb enough to induce any form of teffluvium, so he labeled me as an '80% chance of having male pattern baldness'. He hypothesized that if anything, the antibiotics may have caused hair thinning (note, my hair was definitely thinner, not just falling out). It was then that I decided to stop the topicals, shave my head and just give it sixth months before deciding if I wanted to look into other hair loss treatments like propecia.

It has been almost a year and a half and I can say that my hair is of better quality now than it was when I visited the derm. About 9 months after stopping the topicals I had let my hair grow back out, and I began to notice a large amount of new hairs with tapered ends growing in all over the top of my scalp. Furthermore, my hairline has definitely moved back a bit, although the temporal area remains a bit thin. My hope is that it is the follicles are just cycling back slowly. I am able to style my hair again with gel and hold it in place, which I was definitely unable to do 1.5 years ago. I am still a bit thin in the crown area, and I lose a lot of unhealthy looking hairs from back there which makes me not want to completely rule out male pattern baldness. Compared to where I was when I stopped the topicals though, I will gladly take it.

Do I think the topicals caused my hair thinning? I think it's very possible as I had some form of topical on my face basically 24/7 for 6 months. If you search some other forums on the internet you will find a handful of people that also believe their hair thinning was triggered by Vitamin A topicals, namely Differin. I do believe that I had created a very poor 'growing environment' for my hair for a period months (ie. poor diet, heavy antiobiotic use), which may have contributed to my particular thinning.

All in all, I am thankful for every day that my hair has an acceptable appearance, and I hold out hope that it will slowly and surely return to its original state (not that I am dissatisfied with where it stands now). Sorry for the book, I've been hesitant to post my story for fear of 'jinxing' myself, but I hope that gives some of you another opinion to consider.
 

Cornholio

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I guess if it improved it might have been the meds (more likely the systemic minocycline than the topical)... Good that it's better. But, if the temples and crown continue recession and thinning that is male pattern baldness. Since you are watching you will catch it early if that occures... Then, remember propecia and minoxidil.
 
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Cornholio said:
In addition to the Bazzano study there in another positive retin-a study... Dr Lewenberg (who also sells a minoxidil/retin-a combo and has since around 1990) claims to have seen benefit in adding retin-a to minoxidil... In the linked interview below he says that retin-a helps minoxidil hairs grow stronger, and that increasing minoxidil alone doesn't produce as much healthy hair. (sure, he sells it, but says he has seen it work).

https://www.advancesintherapy.com/detail.aspx?ID=67 "study"
https://www.advancesintherapy.com/detail.aspx?ID=67 "interview"
http://www20.addr.com/~baldspot/formula2.html "claims"

I cant find other "studies," and doubt that anyone will pay for large randomized studies involving a cheap ingredient like retin-a. This (and the Bazzano study) may be the only clinical experience published... Please post other studies if you can find them.
Thanks Colino, but it's a shame that the study doesn't compare tretinoin-minoxidil with normal minoxidil. So it's hard to say that it works better or less good with tretinoin (=Retin A) in it.
 

willywonka

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pantothenic acid which is sometimes called b5 has a quality like retinoic acid in that it helps absorbtion. Who knows, its probably just as good. retinoic acid is not biased in that it works particularly well on minoxidil but rather in general absorbtion.
 

suicidedude

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So guys, is retin-A safe to apply on scalp or face? Reading some posts say that applying these vitamin A stuff on face also induces hairloss??
 
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