Genetics & Hair Loss Question

smartspace13

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My hair has been receding since I was 23. I am now 31. I always had a thick mop on top of my head..really thick. My hair started to thin about 2 years ago and it's thinning pretty rapidly and my crown is thinning as well.

I also have had low levels of iron my whole life borderline iron deficient

So my question is from a hereditary standpoint both my mother's side and father's side...all men have had a full mop of hair on there heads with receding hairline.

So why is my hair thinning? Neither one of my parents understand why from a family tree standpoint...

The one thing I can point out is that I ran a marathon in 2008. After that, my hair has thinned out really bad....may be a possible iron depletion?? I really don't know.

What's going on here? Can anyone help?
 

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Brains Expel Hair

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You are not just a "simple" stretch of 4 different letters in various order. You are the result of what happens when your genes are exposed to an environment. Additionally, you are the result of how the genes from your mother interact with the genes of your father.

This means that you are technically a unique little snowflake. While you may be able to look back at family history for a probability of what will occur as a result of the continuous expression of your genes over the temporal stretch that is your life, you have absolutely nothing you can look at that will tell you exactly what will happen.

Your specific combination of "you" (your mother's genes + your father's genes + any errors that occurred during meiosis + the influence of the environment that your body has been subjected to ever since you were first conceived) has just so turned out to produce hair loss.

FYI: yes you need to get that iron deficiency check asap. It can cause hair loss as one of the least serious symptoms.
 

TheGrayMan2001

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Yeah, you're balding. Somewhere in your family there was a balding gene and no one happened to have it as a trait until you.

It sucks.
 

armandein

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You said: "I always had a thick mop on top of my head..really thick"

¿have you any photo to compare?
 

smartspace13

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Here's the Mop circa 2008....the long hair, went parted covers the hairline but it's basically the same
 

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s.a.f

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Strange how the 'Iron difficiency' is only effecting the top of his head? :whistle: ie the classic m.p.b area.
 

armandein

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Thank you for the photo.
It is rare that an iron deficiency can be the reason of your male pattern baldness.
Did you notice hair loss when you crop your hair? How many years did you cut severely your hair? How about grease hair in this time?
 

smartspace13

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When I trained and eventually ran a marathon in 2008, I cut my hair short. After that I decided to grow my hair out but I noticed the longer my hair got, it got stringy so now I just keep it short.

Can I grow it long? Sure. But absolutely no volume and very stringy. The mop isn't there anymore.

I'm not saying what's happening to my hair is necessarily because of iron deficiency but can it be a cause of it from the way my hair is progressing?

I have very poor circulation on my fingertips and toes. It's always cold and it's heredity....so maybe I'm not getting the necessary blood circulation on my head?
 

TheGrayMan2001

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As much as you're going to hate to hear it and want to be in denial (we have all been there) you have the male pattern baldness gene.

If you want to keep that hair you're going to have to get on finasteride and minoxodil--both of them.

If you were losing hair for any other health reason, it would not be in the classic male pattern baldness shape. It would be all over or spotty loss. Instead, you've got a receding hairline with thinning in the diffuse horsehoe pattern. You're going bald and the only way to stop it is finasteride and minoxodil.

I wish you luck. It's horrible news to come to terms with but, hey, you might get that mop of hair back if you start now.
 

armandein

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Hi Smarspace13:

You said: "My hair has been receding since I was 23. I am now 31"

But, in your photo with 29 years old (in 2008), seem that you have not any hair problem. Then, your real problem probably started in recent years, not in your early 20'. Maybe with the excesive hair crop.... if it is your case, there is an explanation (www.againstalopeciaandbaldness.com)

Blood circulation have a very minor factor in hair loss.
 

Brains Expel Hair

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You must have missed the whole concept of gene expression. Don't worry, you're only about 70 years behind on the times.
 

Hoppi

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I do think that just because someone is genetically susceptible to something it doesn't mean they will necessary suffer from it. Whether or not an iron deficiency can cause male pattern balding is a different point to whether he is genetically susceptible.. isn't it?
 

Brains Expel Hair

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seaback said:
Brains Expel Hair said:
You must have missed the whole concept of gene expression. Don't worry, you're only about 70 years behind on the times.

Haha Brain :) you are so cute. I have perfectly understood this concept, I do not think that I would be doing what I am doing now if I had missed it... The hair loss character is definitely inherited and has nothing (or very little) to do with the influence of the environment :) The influence of the environment in the determination of one's phenotype does not really apply in this case.


Cute, considering factors such as dosing with finasteride or minoxidil are "environmental factors". Or are you born with a finasteride gland? Or are there absolutely no other factors that can influence hormonal levels in humans?

Additionally, I was not aware that all of the scientific work on epigenetics was completed and that we knew for a fact every single gene that can and cannot have it's expression affected by outside factors.

Even if we did, guess what iron deficiency is linked with chronic folliculitis which can lead to... hair loss! (omg, like totally environmental!)

I know you'd like to think that you're beyond remedial but it's sad when you follow me around this board inaccurately "correcting" me. Since this all seems like something you're severely interested in, I think your time would be much better spent actually learning the basics than constantly tasting your foot.
 

Hoppi

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seaback, surely you understand that the majority of individuals such as myself who believe that male pattern baldness can have environmental triggers also acknowledge the role of the individual's genetics?

I am not saying that I am not genetically susceptible to male pattern baldness, for example, I am saying that I believe it is possible to upset the hormonal balance in such a way that favours hair loss.

Also, why do you believe you are so untouchable with regards to Biology? Unless you can claim to have a degree or a PhD or something in a related subject, why should anyone accept your claims over Brains'?

I listen to absolutely everyone on here and every forum I have posted on, and unless you have a complete understanding of human biology down to every gene, hormone and pathway, I suggest you be a little bit more open-minded o_O
 

Brains Expel Hair

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Amusingly enough you try and play an air of superiority when you can't even correctly figure out what you're arguing.

seaback said:
You constantly deny the primordial role of genetics in processes such as hair loss despite a large body of evidence proving the opposite and your point of view is biased towards the importance of environmental factors.

Brains Expel Hair said:
Your specific combination of "you" (your mother's genes + your father's genes + any errors that occurred during meiosis + the influence of the environment that your body has been subjected to ever since you were first conceived) has just so turned out to produce hair loss.

That little formula I wrote to help the original poster understand slightly how his genes work contains 4 different factors. The primordial factors listed in that formula? DNA. But if your DNA was the only single thing that had a factor on hair loss we wouldn't need these forums. There'd be no point really, as any external factors such as even finasteride, unless I was incorrect in the post above, would have absolutely zero effect and nothing that ever happened to you after conception would change how much hair you lose. No diets, no exercise, no drugs. Fact is, I have never once said that a persons genes are not an influence or cause of hair loss. If you'd ever read what you're so haphazardly critiquing you'd know that I say quite the opposite.

My point of view is biased in that I accept the fact that there are environmental factors. This "opinion" makes me a severe outlier from many of the regular posters on this forum. This in itself is ridiculous in how limited in logical capacity it means that most of the regular posters must be. Even if we assume that there is only one single gene responsible for hair loss (which I sincerely hope you at least realize there is more) and that gene directly and only interacts with DHT, then obviously the only things that will affect hair loss will do so by affecting DHT (even though that's still too simplified). Great, I know you're all with me still since this is the same crap you guys copy and paste in each thread. Ok, so anything that has an affect on DHT in the scalp area will potentially affect hair loss right? Correct, now does that effect have to be direct or indirect? Somehow as soon as anyone starts mentioning possible indirect interactions there's always at least one of you bald "experts" chiming in about how fanciful their claims are. There's nothing to say to this besides, you're wrong. The reason you're wrong is you're just amazingly limited in your mental capacity. Hell even finasteride isn't a direct interaction. Finasteride indirectly affects DHT mediated hair loss by directly affecting 5-AR, so how come you guys can't accept the fact that there are other factors out there that can indirectly affect hair loss?

How can you possibly hold such a fatalistic view of any aspect of human life and still claim to be a scientist or even student? Anyways, I'm glad you're getting away from needlessly harassing me. I will admit it can be frustrating to often times see so many detractors completely failing to grasp what I'm saying. It's enough for me to almost just say to hell with this place. I got what I needed, my hair is no longer oily, my hair loss stopped and my health drastically improved, mainly because I ignored the advice of people like you.

However I keep coming back and offering advice and my "flights of fancy" because of the messages I frequently receive in my inbox here from people whom I've actually managed to help. I regrettably see that if it weren't for me on here most of what they would have had to listen to were you fools claiming that everyone is equally doomed from birth.
 

TheGrayMan2001

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Brain and hoppi:

blah blah blah the science isnt right cause i dont want to believe it blah blah blah


no offense guys but that really is what your posts sound like. i think you're being honest so it's rather subconsciously coming out that way
 

Hoppi

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Well said Brains :)

And Grayman do remember that although I'm still struggling (and learning) Brains claims to have now stopped his hair loss, so in his case it's less a case of believing what he wants and more of merely seeing the evidence in the mirror! lol Sometimes I do wonder if the REVERSE is true though - that people believe their hair loss is unavoidable as this explanation is simpler and allows them to keep living their lives in pretty much the way they did before. Is that not possible?
 

TheGrayMan2001

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Hoppi said:
Well said Brains :)

And Grayman do remember that although I'm still struggling (and learning) Brains claims to have now stopped his hair loss, so in his case it's less a case of believing what he wants and more of merely seeing the evidence in the mirror! lol Sometimes I do wonder if the REVERSE is true though - that people believe their hair loss is unavoidable as this explanation is simpler and allows them to keep living their lives in pretty much the way they did before. Is that not possible?

Well I doubt brain was losing in a male pattern baldness pattern if he had hair loss due to gluten or whatever it was he claimed caused his hairloss. Secondly he states that 10% opinion and to me that's just a silly anecdote. It might be possible but most people lose hair from genetics and genetics alone.

But, yeah, I agree with your statement on people accepting hairloss as something they just have to deal with in life and move on and don't think much about it anymore.
 

armandein

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seaback said:
. I usually spend my days reading papers for my work, and my nights reading papers on hair loss. Enough is enough. I need to get a life !

Yeah seaback, genetics is genetics, period....
but as you are a literate in the matter, please can you cite any study regarding the genetic difference in healthy scalp hairs?
Any theory must explain the pattern of common hair loss.
 

Hoppi

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armandein said:
seaback said:
. I usually spend my days reading papers for my work, and my nights reading papers on hair loss. Enough is enough. I need to get a life !

Yeah seaback, genetics is genetics, period....
but as you are a literate in the matter, please can you cite any study regarding the genetic difference in healthy scalp hairs?
Any theory must explain the pattern of common hair loss.

What I heard is that the ones there have more androgen receptors on them.

In FACT... many things I have heard point to NUMBERS of androgen receptors being the changing factor triggering balding, and not, say, 5ar2 upregulation.

hm :)
 
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