Free weights versus machines, for Rambo and others to debate

[mulder]

I love how most people try to claim that squats...esp. *** to the grass squats are bad for your knees and back....so INSTEAD they do leg extensions...

Too bad heavy weight leg extensions are actually TERRIBLE for your knees and full range squats actually STRENGTHEN your knees.

There are people who use leg extensions as a substitute for squating? :roll:

I personally tend to use leg press as my main exercise when working my thighs and glutes, I prefer it to squats for muscle buidling. I do think squats give you a more total work out but the weight I can use is a lot less. This is one instance where I prefer the machine for mass building. Maybe I should try free weight low squats with lighter weight as a second exercise

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

I love how most people try to claim that squats...esp. *** to the grass squats are bad for your knees and back....so INSTEAD they do leg extensions...

Too bad heavy weight leg extensions are actually TERRIBLE for your knees and full range squats actually STRENGTHEN your knees.

There are people who use leg extensions as a substitute for squating? :roll:

I personally tend to use leg press as my main exercise when working my thighs and glutes, I prefer it to squats for muscle buidling. I do think squats give you a more total work out but the weight I can use is a lot less. This is one instance where I prefer the machine for mass building. Maybe I should try free weight low squats with lighter weight as a second exercise

dude all i said was heavy weight leg extensions are bad for your knees and squats are NOT.

and your wrong even light weight squats are better mass builders than leg press....EVERYONE can leg press more than they squat, that is irrelevant. The best lift you can do in the gym is the squat.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

full range of motion is as low as your body allows....dont stop at parallel...thats probably the WORST thing you can do for your knees

Oh great, now squating to parallel is the worst thing we can do for our knees. Any other ways to mess them up? Are leg curls safe?

leg curls are fine BUT i would recommend straight legged dead lifts instead.

think about it ccs...when you stop at parallel for that split second think of huge static load on your knee joint.....you want to go all the way down and then up in one fluid motion.

obviously ifyour squatting really light weight you wont damage your knees goin parallel...how much are you squatting anyway?

 

[CCS]

I just do body weight, on good days. If my knees are hurting that day, I don't quat at all. I can feel them hurting when I'm riding my bike or just walking around. On a day when they don't hurt, I know it is time to go do some body weight squats while I can. I told doctors about it many times, but they don't know what is wrong. They ask me to be so extremely specific about where the pain is, and if I do remember and tell them, they don't have a response. Took X-rays, found nothing. They're worthless. Only advice they have for me is, "if it hurts you knees don't do it."

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

I just do body weight, on good days. If my knees are hurting that day, I don't quat at all. I can feel them hurting when I'm riding my bike or just walking around. On a day when they don't hurt, I know it is time to go do some body weight squats while I can. I told doctors about it many times, but they don't know what is wrong. They ask me to be so extremely specific about where the pain is, and if I do remember and tell them, they don't have a response. Took X-rays, found nothing. They're worthless. Only advice they have for me is, "if it hurts you knees don't do it."

that is good advice...you should llisten to your body. Are you sure your squating correctly though....most people dont squat right...you are pushing off your heels right? Most guys I see have their heels off the ground and are pushing off with their toes...or better yet putting 5/10lb plates under their heels....that is soo bad for your knees....you shift all the weight forward...its all sheer stress at your knee joint.

 

[CCS]

I've been using my toes. I did not know it is possible to do body weight squats wrong. But I'll start using my heels. thanks.

What about lunges? Are those heels too?

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

I've been using my toes. I did not know it is possible to do body weight squats wrong. But I'll start using my heels. thanks.

What about lunges? Are those heels too?

yah...when youre squatting push off using your heels....DO NOT let your heels come off the ground. By doing this your bring your posterior chain into the exercise.

When your pushing off one the lunges and bring your foot back you should push off with your heel as well.

Body weight squats arent goin to help you pack on muscle. If I were you id first practice with just the bar until your sure you have the form correct and then SLOWLY add weight from week to week.

 

[CCS]

just using the heels would require balance, and risk falling backwards. I think I'll put 75% of my weight on my heels, with a slight lean forwards so my toes can keep my balance.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

just using the heels would require balance, and risk falling backwards. I think I'll put 75% of my weight on my heels, with a slight lean forwards so my toes can keep my balance.

yah thats fine...just keep your heels on the ground. It does ttake practice...thats why i said just start with the bar or maybe even a broomstick, eventually you will get the motion down.

 

[Harie]

i would recommend straight legged dead lifts instead.

SLDL's will blast your hamstrings 10x more than leg curls will. SLDL & Good Mornings are about the best hamstring exercise out there. After an intense session of SLDL's, it hurts to walk the next day. I LOVE SLDL's!

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

i would recommend straight legged dead lifts instead.

SLDL's will blast your hamstrings 10x more than leg curls will. SLDL & Good Mornings are about the best hamstring exercise out there. After an intense session of SLDL's, it hurts to walk the next day. I LOVE SLDL's!

harie i cant believe we share so much of the same viewpoints when it comes to lifting....whenever i talk to people about weigh training they think im nuts at some of the things i recommend.

 

[Harie]

[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":628ee]i would recommend straight legged dead lifts instead.

SLDL's will blast your hamstrings 10x more than leg curls will. SLDL & Good Mornings are about the best hamstring exercise out there. After an intense session of SLDL's, it hurts to walk the next day. I LOVE SLDL's!

harie i cant believe we share so much of the same viewpoints when it comes to lifting....whenever i talk to people about weigh training they think im nuts at some of the things i recommend.[/quote:628ee]

I hear ya. I read your posts and say, wow, I'd have said the same thing. Well, besides that Vick has a cannon of an arm. lol

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":4f907]i would recommend straight legged dead lifts instead.

SLDL's will blast your hamstrings 10x more than leg curls will. SLDL & Good Mornings are about the best hamstring exercise out there. After an intense session of SLDL's, it hurts to walk the next day. I LOVE SLDL's!

harie i cant believe we share so much of the same viewpoints when it comes to lifting....whenever i talk to people about weigh training they think im nuts at some of the things i recommend.

I hear ya. I read your posts and say, wow, I'd have said the same thing. Well, besides that Vick has a cannon of an arm. lol[/quote:4f907]

haha...he can throw a rocket....so can aaron brooks though...they both still suck.

 

[CCS]

I find it odd that bicyclists have the pedals attached to the balls of their feet, not the heal. If putting the force on the balls were so unhealthy, you'd think all those cyclists would have bad knees. Or does the heel method only apply to people lifting multiples of their body weight?

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

I find it odd that bicyclists have the pedals attached to the balls of their feet, not the heal. If putting the force on the balls were so unhealthy, you'd think all those cyclists would have bad knees. Or does the heel method only apply to people lifting multiples of their body weight?

that is different...first off that load is nothing compared to a 250+ plus squat...secondly you are pushing when your biking...when you squat your knee acts like a hinge and your thigh bone acts like a lever. they are 2 totally different models.

 

[CCS]

I just did bent leg dumbell deadlift/squats today. Not sure what to call what I did. I stood with my heals just less than shoulder width apart, put a 45 degree wedge between my feet, squated, made sure to stay on my heals as I dropped below halfway, went down till my thigh sometimes touched my calf, and then stood back up. And I made sure to keep my knees pointed out at 45 degrees too. I was also leaning my upper body kind of far forwards, which made it kind of like a dead lift.

No pain when I did all that. I notice pain if I deviated at all from that, though. My knees ached a bit, but not bad. As I dropped to halfway, I felt the pressure build in my knees, then it was releaved as I leaned back an put the weight on my heals.

My quads were not really challenged, though my shoulders and forearms were, a bit. I was holding 37.5 pounds in each hand. I did 5 sets of 15, and had to take 2 minute rests because they got me so out of breath. I was really amazed at how tiring those light squats could be.

5 minutes later, I was walking funny. I really noticed how sore my hamstrings are when I got on my bicycle.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

I just did bent leg dumbell deadlift/squats today. Not sure what to call what I did. I stood with my heals just less than shoulder width apart, put a 45 degree wedge between my feet, squated, made sure to stay on my heals as I dropped below halfway, went down till my thigh sometimes touched my calf, and then stood back up. And I made sure to keep my knees pointed out at 45 degrees too. I was also leaning my upper body kind of far forwards, which made it kind of like a dead lift.

No pain when I did all that. I notice pain if I deviated at all from that, though. My knees ached a bit, but not bad. As I dropped to halfway, I felt the pressure build in my knees, then it was releaved as I leaned back an put the weight on my heals.

My quads were not really challenged, though my shoulders and forearms were, a bit. I was holding 37.5 pounds in each hand. I did 5 sets of 15, and had to take 2 minute rests because they got me so out of breath. I was really amazed at how tiring those light squats could be.

5 minutes later, I was walking funny. I really noticed how sore my hamstrings are when I got on my bicycle.

did you say you put a wedge between your foot and the ground!?!

 

[CCS]

no, I angled my toes out from my heels so that there was 45 degrees between my feet.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

no, I angled my toes out from my heels so that there was 45 degrees between my feet.

oh ok...its fine if you want to go a little wider than shoulder width...you will just recruit more hamstring and glutes....if you keep your legs closer together you will shift some work to your quads.

 

[CCS]

I don't want my legs too wide because they will be in the way of the dumb bells when I come down. I'm not doing barbell squats.