Folligen

[Vigilant]

This site doesn't seem to have a problem with only waiting a minute or two for minoxidil to dry before applying Folligen:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productrevi ... /index.htm

Personally, I don't like the thought of using various topicals and not knowing how they react with one another. For that reason, and because of time contraints, I have limited my use of topicals down to one in the AM and one in the PM. I've been using FNS in the PM, and am about to add Tricomin in the AM. If FNS doesn't start working within the month (that gives it three months total), I'll just start using Tricomin 2x/day. I can't use minoxidil due to reasons I discussed in the regimen thread.

Btw, I like Tricomin better than Folligen since it has the science behind it. However because of it's cost and lower copper concentration, you need to have 1)the money and 2)the time to apply it 1-2 times daily. Otherwise I suppose Folligen would be a good alternative.

 

[-pipo-]

Hi guys,

pippo, rocky, anyone, have any experience using Folligen Spray more than once daily..... Maybe 2 or more times daily?.... Is there any problem if you use it many times.....?

Thanks

Bluesmen

Bluesmen,

I used it twice daily when I first started using it about 8 mos ago....This was just to hurry my scalp into shape....If anything, it helped more than hurt....But ditto what rocky said about the mess. I prefer to use it after im not gonna be seen by people anymore for the day....If Tricomin worked as well as Folligen, or at all, I would love that product bc it makes the hair look better. I dont know what Vigilent was talking about when he said the "science" was behind Tricomin....the inventor of the product, Dr. pickart, who initially launched Tricomin broke off from Procyte and came up with Folligen, which aside from the cosmetic differences is a far superior product. Query: has anyone on these boards evr had visible changes from Tricomin? Its weak compared to Folligen, bottom line...
pipo

 

[Vigilant]

I dont know what Vigilent was talking about when he said the "science" was behind Tricomin....the inventor of the product, Dr. pickart, who initially launched Tricomin broke off from Procyte and came up with Folligen, which aside from the cosmetic differences is a far superior product. Query: has anyone on these boards evr had visible changes from Tricomin? Its weak compared to Folligen, bottom line...

No need to sound defencive there pipo. What I meant about Tricomin having the science behind it is that Tricomin went through two FDA phase trials showing promising results (better than 2% minoxidil). Folligen did not.

Tricomin uses a specific Alanine/Histidine/Lysine Polypetide Copper complex. Folligen throws a bunch of salts and chloride(?) together to get a completely random result each time, although yes at a higher concentration than Tricomin.

When Dr. Pickart left Procyte to make another copper peptide formula, I believe he did the only thing he could do: make the next best thing. That's just my guess/opinion though.

Folligen is a fine product. But you don't have to make it sound like I was making things up when I said that Tricomin had more science behind it. Btw, you'd know most of this if you read through the product section of this website:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productreviews/index.htm

 

[rocky]

Vigilant: What I meant about Tricomin having the science behind it is that Tricomin went through two FDA phase trials showing promising results (better than 2% minoxidil). Folligen did not.

My understanding is that the product Tricomin sells to the public is a considerably weaker watered-down version of the version which went through the FDA phase trials.

Tricomin uses a specific Alanine/Histidine/Lysine Polypetide Copper complex. Folligen throws a bunch of salts and chloride(?) together to get a completely random result each time, although yes at a higher concentration than Tricomin...When Dr. Pickart left Procyte to make another copper peptide formula, I believe he did the only thing he could do: make the next best thing. That's just my guess/opinion though.


Using chloride and salts is the method by which copper-peptides are formed in solution. Dr. Pickart is convinced that Folligen is a 2nd generation copper product that is more effective and advanced than Tricomin, a 1st generation development. For instance, Tricomin contains blue dyes to give the appearance of a high concentration of naturally formed copper-peptides...Folligen is naturally a deep blue-green from it's concentration of c-p's and contains no blue dyes. What good is having a specific proven effective forumula such as you've correctly noted Tricomin *did* if it's watered down so much that they've had to add artificial blue dye so it doesn't look like a bottle of water?

The bottom line for me is that I've used them both and found Folligen to be the superior product without any doubt. Believe me, I so wanted Tricomin to be my c-p treatment of choice because it is much easier to apply and style with, but I just had to admit after a good 9 months of consistent usage that I was getting no results from it other than an immediate conditioning effect. Once I started up on the Folligen again (and was once again forced to use it in the evening only) I noticed an obvious decrease in the sporadic scalp itch/irritation I was getting as well as a general enhancement in the condition and look of my hair.

Take a look at the Folligen ingredients and you'll see that copper peptides are 3rd on the list: - Purified water, aloe vera gel, copper peptides (hydrolyzed soy protein and copper chloride), glycerin, propylene glycol, polysorbate-20, allantoin, diazolinydinyl urea, methylparaben, propylparaben, herbal fragrance.

Now check out Tricomin's ingredient list and notice where their copper-peptide formula comes inurified Water, SD Alcohol 40B, Amodimethicone, Nonoxynol-10, Panthenol, Polyquaternium-11, Paolysorbate 60, Tallowtrimonium Chloride, Citric Acid, Dimethyl Lauramine Isostearate, Linoleamidopropyl Ethyl Dimonium Ethosulfate, Triamino Copper Nutritional Complex (Alanine/Histidine/Lysine Polypetide Copper HCI), Methylparaben, Benzathonium Chloride, Menthol, FD&C Blue #1.

Just based on those two ingredient lists it seems to me that not only does Folligen have more c-p's and no blue dye, but it also appears to be a healthier product for the scalp as it contains aloe vera gel, a significantly less number of chemical cosmetic enhancers and NO alcohol. The only negative I can see for Folligen is that it contains proplyene glycol as the delivery vehicle, which can cause initial irritaion for many users...but the c-p formula is very effective and negates that irritation within the first few weeks, from my experience. Tricomin uses alcohol as it's delivery vehicle, so it absorbs faster but not necessarily more effectively.

Either way, it comes down to personal choice and how effective you find the product to be for you over time.

rocky

 

[colin]

This site doesn't seem to have a problem with only waiting a minute or two for minoxidil to dry before applying Folligen:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productrevi ... /index.htm

Personally, I don't like the thought of using various topicals and not knowing how they react with one another. For that reason, and because of time contraints, I have limited my use of topicals down to one in the AM and one in the PM. I've been using FNS in the PM, and am about to add Tricomin in the AM. If FNS doesn't start working within the month (that gives it three months total), I'll just start using Tricomin 2x/day. I can't use minoxidil due to reasons I discussed in the regimen thread.

Btw, I like Tricomin better than Folligen since it has the science behind it. However because of it's cost and lower copper concentration, you need to have 1)the money and 2)the time to apply it 1-2 times daily. Otherwise I suppose Folligen would be a good alternative.

Thanks for the link,Vigilant.I do think you might want to swap the tricomin for folligen's spray,rocky's post right above goes into a good amount of detail as to why.

Colin

 

[shuggyboy]

I would like to add that this week i have added folligen and i really prefer this over tricomin i agree with Rocky in that tricomin leaves the hair more easy to style, Whether its a coincidence since starting folligen my shedding has fallen greatly I would recommend this product and i use at night about an hour after my minoxidil application, then 30 mins later i add topical spironolactone. The only downside to folligen is that my hair feels sticky for a little while after application but stil an A+, i even persuaded my dad to use it for his scalp irritation maybe he will get some regrowth! :wink:
cheers
shuggy

 

[-pipo-]

Viglilent,
Sorry bout that bro...didnt mean to sound defensive...just tryin to help and dont want others to make some of the mistakes that I have. I know you meant the trials when referring to the "science".
Im only saying that Ive personally tried both, and Folligen wins by a mile...If you want to try Tricomin out, thats great, but, in the back of your mind I want you to remember what Uncle Pipo told ya! Once again, Ditto what Rocky said, couldnt say it better..........g'luck
pipo

 

[hairybastard]

Has anyone tried either Tricomin or Folligen Shampoo? It has copper peptides as well but I'm not sure how much.. I just ordered some tricomin shampoo and I plan on letting it soak into my scalp for at leats 5 min. in the shower. Any thoughts?

 

[rocky]

Has anyone tried either Tricomin or Folligen Shampoo?

I've used them both, including the conditioners. They are all "good" products, but once again I've found that the Folligen shampoo and conditioner are more "medicinal" in that they appear to have a higher concentration of copper peptides than the Tricomin products...based on the appearance, smell, and look of the product. Once again Folligen's ingredient listing is short with c-p's high on the list when compared to Tricomin which is loaded whith chemical enhancers and has it's c-p complex buried at the bottom of their ingredient listing. I would not recommend either shampoo...instead use the Folligen Therapy Spray by applying it directly onto your scalp with a dropper in the evening, and use a combination of shampoo's that are more geared toward regrowth/maintainence/healing. I use NANO Shampoo 2-5X per week, Dr. Lee's Regrowth Shampoo (comparable to Nizoral 2%) 1X per week, Nuetrogena Therapeutic T/Gel Shampoo 1-2X per week, and J & J Baby Shampoo on most days, sometimes as a pre-wash for the NANO.

What I do recommend is that you use the Folligen Conditioner...I just ordered a bottle myself. I also alternate that with NANO Conditioner. All of the shampoo's and conditioners I let sit on my scalp for about 5 minutes.

One other thing...I recently got turned on to adding about 5 drops of emu oil into my shampoo while in my palm, mixing it for a second, and then applying it to my hair and shampooing as usual. So far this has proven to give my hair added luster, shine, and body and it seems to be a good way to mix emu oil easily into our regimens. Give it a try, I've been pleasantly surprised with the immediate results. One of the best pharmaceutical grade emu oil formulas is available from Skin Biology and it is peroxide-free and designed especially for the hair with added mixed saw palmetto oil and natural tocotrienols...Skin Biology for both Folligen and Emu Oil S Lipid Replenisher for the Hair.

Rocky

 

[Bluesmen]

I found this at: http://www.folligen.com/folligenformen.htm

“A recent study of 3,000 individuals found no link between baldness and the genes (5-alpha reductase) controlling the the production of testosterone metabolites . (Reference: Elias, Stebbing and Harrap, Genetic analysis of male pattern baldness and the 5-alpha reductase genes, J Invest Dermatol 110: pages 849-853 (1998)). If follicular health is improved or maintained, hair loss can be reversed or minimized. Many men have high testosterone metabolite levels but never suffer hair loss.”

Very Strange..... Any Comment?

Another:

http://www.folligen.com/index.html#Foll ... 20Regrowth

Copper ion in the skin is more effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter). No other metal has these effects.

Interesting.....

Bluesmen

 

[skipes]

try diluting fiolligen

i used tricomin after some transplants, then swtitched to folligen after a while after reading how much more copper is in there than tric. i agree wtih you all that the tric makes the hair look better, but at a higher price and a lot less copper, which is what w want! i diluted folligen with some purified water and my hair is a lot more manageable and looks damn good. this still gives you tons of copper, makes the stuff last longer, makes the hair more manageable and really has worked out well. i use it in the morning and after its dry it looks good, has some hold too. i use revivogen at night with a 1/4 of proscar. i alsoeat saw palmetto 320 mg in the morning. seems to be doing prettty good job of keeping em in there! let me know any advice or whatever, later.

 

[pete2001]

skipes,

I agree with what you say. Tricomin definitely leaves the hair feeling softer and looking better. But you always get the feeling it is just a very expensive conditioner. Folligen leaves the hair more matted together but I do think Folligen does the scalp and hair more good. I don't dilute it, I just apply after a shower (for increased absorption) and after it dries it looks ok as my hair is pretty short. I think Folligen is an important part of any regimen, copper has been shown to reduce fibrosis, improve cell healing AND reduce 5a-R (I am not convinced by the last one though).

 

[Jman]

Feel

When comparing Trico. and Folligen users always describe it by feeling on the scalp. I have used both, while Trico. does "feel" better on the scalp and Folligen has a stinging "feeling" to the scalp. What I find funny is how sadistic we have been condtioned in society. If something feels good than it cannot be as good as something that feels bad or how it is constantly stated "medicinol".
The nerve endings on our scalps are sending these signals or sensations, not our follicles. Why do we associate uncomfortable conditions as "working" or being good?

This is what I know, Trico. feels good on the scalp(which is a relief with so many topicals that don't) and conditions the scalp and hair. Leaves no residue and has FDA studies. Folligen has more copper peptides, but has anyone notice how mich of it stays on the scalp, it seems not to get absorbed very well, so what's the point. It also irritates the scalp.

I am not bashing any product, but to choose one over the other based on "feel" and not science is just plain silly!

 

[CHRIS]

I agree with a lot of what you say , JMAN .

I've now got a supply of both Tricomin and Folligen , I really don't know which one is the better . So I thought that it would be best to order both !

I have now been using Tricomin for 2 1/2 weeks . Tricomin has a nice cosmetic feel + dosen't mess up the hair . I wanted something that I could apply without fuss in the morning (not worried about 'fuss' in the evening , unless i'm going out ) , feedback from the various forums told me that Tricomin was the answer to that problem . A non messy product + with FDA phase 2 studies in it's favour . Not bad !

Accounts from users on here + elsewhere , convinced me that Folligen is also a fine product . Used it (the mist spray variety) for the first time last night . I will continue to use it at night , as is in fact advised in the accompanying literature . It is a bit messier than Tricomin , makes the hair stick together !

A positive from using both products I feel , is also one of saving money . To use Tricomin 2 x a day would mean that I would use up what is undeniably a costly product , quite quickly . Folligen is better value i'm sure . At perhaps 2/3 of the price of Tricomin and 8oz bottle as opposed to 6oz for tricomin , it represents economy . I ordered 3 x 8oz bottles , they also thru in 2 x 2oz bottles for free . Excellent value !

 

[pete2001]

The stinging and irritation you get with Folligen goes away with prolonged use and now I could use either Tricomin OR Folligen and not have any irritation at all. Both feel similar. The only difference is that Tricomin leaves the hair looking better but that doesn't mean it works better. Phase 2 FDA studies on Tricomin were never completed and also note that this was a different formulation of Tricomin than the cosmetic version Procyte now sell. Folligen does contain a lot more copper and if you apply it to a hydrated scalp (after showering), it absorbs pretty well. I think the consenus is that Folligen is the superior product. Just my opinion as no one has compared them directly in clinical trials.

 

[-pipo-]

Jman,
Ive posted this before, but ill repeat it cas I believe its important for us.....Without knowing it, non-voluntarily, I basically conducted a "taste test" of the two products....I used Folligen for 5 mos with tremenous success, however, not quite sure if my success was due to folligen or some other product I was using....Anyway, to borrow your point on "sadism", I figured since Tricomin was a much more expensive product, I should give it a try in place of folligen....After 2 mos I had the worst shed ever, And my scalp went to sh*t....I mean I couldnt handle the minoxidil anymore and I thought it was Telogen Effluvium.
I decided to start Folligen again, and after suffering thru the 3 weeks of stinging, it all got better again and I have made huge gains ever since.....I wont speak for how these two compare for all of you, but for me, the the lesson that I was taught had NOTHING to so with how they felt on the scalp when applied, but instead long term results....gluck all
pipo

 

[Jman]

Fair enough Pipo, long as you are getting results than stick with.

 

[-pipo-]

Jman,
I dont mean to be so gung ho about a silly product, its just that when you truly believe that its helping, you want others who are on the same boat to get the same results....BC i know how you feel, and hate to see you waste your $$$$$ on Tricomin when all it does is condition the hair. Folligen does what Tricomin is supposed to do but for less money.......you can lead a horse to water but....anyway, everyone is different. Its possible that I had some condition in particular that folligen helped greatly with, but others dont have it....So i dont wanna advocate for you. later Jman
pip[o

 

[Jman]

Hey Pipo, whata you think about emu oil?

 

[hairybastard]

What about Tricomin Shampoo? Are there enough copper peptides in it to make it worth using ? Thanks.