Follica on NBC with Matt Lauer

[michael barry]

http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en- ... 49264afc01


That should be the link, you may have to cut and paste to the tool bar.



Here is their patent, http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo= ... SPLAY=DESC

Ive read through the various experiments. What they appear to do is to dermabrate the skin, block epidermal growth factor and wnt expression for nine days (I know of something that does both), apply keratinocyte growth factor afterwards. In one test example, they also started using minoxidil at day 11 until hairgerms are detected.



They dont up WNT in most of the experimental examples. Apparently wnt-signalling gets up after a wound naturally---so perhaps lithium chloride and wnt protiens aren't necessary. They weren't mentioned in most of the examples way down in the patent.


They regrew human hair on human skin grafted onto a SCID mouse. They have recruited for their first trial. Their company features one guy who used to be the head of Merk Pharmaceutical and one guy who used to head Upjohn, so "the big guns" are in on this. Follica is owned by Gillette, who is in turn owned by Proctor and Gamble



The bios of their management is availaible on this page if you click over each persons picture. There are some very impressive bios and alot of experience here. http://www.follicabio.com/

 

[harold]

Hey Michael, meant to get back to you on this earlier - I dont think they are going to use dermabrasion if they can help it but rather microdermabrasion. Dermabrasion is a procedure that requires a general anaesthetic and is pretty much literally having your face sandpapered. People are a blood mess afterwards. Microdermabrasion is far gentler and can be done at home with home microdermabrasion kits. Its more akin to exfoliation. However there is evidence that even such relatively gentle treatments can change gene expression in the skin - even simple pressure seesm to induce the expression of proteins that remould the skin. I seem to recall Cotsarelis talking about how they would use a treatment that would "nudge" the skin cells in such a way so as to make them express/revert to (getting vague here) the stem cell populations that they could then induce to become hair follicles.
And though they were able to grow hair without artificially invoking the wnt pathway other than by wounding the skin they found that the addition of wnt proteins dramatically increased the number of hair follicles formed. I think there was a graph that showed it going from something like 14 to 140 or so. So something along those lines will definitely be a big part of things. I also think that the nearby presence of other hair follicles may be an additional help in inducing stem cells to become hair and not skin cells since the patent is always talking about bringing the area into contact with hair or skin cells depending on what they are trying to generate. This might explain why people find it easier to regrow on the crown rather than the temple also. Just a thought.
hh

 

[metalheaddude]

There is already a thread about his vid. Matt makes me laugh in this video because he tried act dumb about male pattern baldness when in reality I bet he knew ten times more than that women he was interviewing.

 

[michael barry]

Harold,

I noted that they block epidermal growth factor while doing this fox x-amount of days. They have tried adding KGF and minoxidil and gotten better yeilds of new hair also. They will be optimising this procedure. I have a hunch that being on finasteride might help also....................as there would be less androgens around during the days the hairs are being formed as elevated androgens during puberty have shown to result in some biological markers (the longer ring finger, etc) that also correlate statistically with more male pattern baldness later. The fact that they are willing to go on television says alot though doesn't it? I mean hell, they must be confident. Intercytex and Aderans haven't been willing to do that, because their test results have been far more specious. This is something Ive noted "between the lines" when Costarialis speaks about how others are trying to coax cells to do this and that instead of them naturally doing what they do with a mere bit of direction with this method.

If it could only be made to work well in the donor area, thereby increasing the amount of donor hair, it could make transplants alot better by increasing the amount of hair that could be moved.





Metalheaddude, Yes, Im certain that Matt Lauer was playing dumb. He has griped about his hair in the past and no doubt knows all about baldness. Hell, he probably takes finasteride or at least uses nizoral. Its "unmasculine" to gripe publically about going bald in the opinion of many-----------------------but hell, then why is it kosher to gripe about acne, another androgen-related dermal disorder? I look at it as solving a cosmetic happenstance that we dont like, like excessively aged-skin in someone who is merely 40 or something. Perhaps we can do something about it. If women started going male pattern baldness in large numbers, it would be all over the televsion screens and their would be literal screaming for more research into the area. If anything is "unmasculine" its all these men who get their body hair lasered out and have their chests waxed. Its not unnatural to want ones hair back. Matt Lauer is just worried about being seen as a man overconcerned with his appearance. If thats the case, why even press one's slacks or worry about the knot in their tie? Who cares about a close shave, a cheap electric trimmer would suffice? f*** em' all. I want all my hair back, and want it for all of you guys too.

 

[iostream71]

i think it's a big positive sign that this made it onto a huge national morning show. you certainly don't see any of the other guys willing to do that yet. here's hoping

 

[phish]

follica and ascj9 always impressed me the most. im looking at either coming out in next 2 years and replacing our entire big 3.

 

[michael barry]

I dont know that I'd get off finasteride. Follica doesn't change one's genetics. And nizoral is just a shampoo----and you are going to be shampooing anyway, so a couple of days a week is not a problem right?


The hairs Follica makes in the frontal scalp, even if they are like the male pattern baldness hairs that were there-----still give a guy a "second chance" to keep them. If he was on finas when they were created, and stayed on it, perhaps they will never fall out.


At the very least, hopefully follica can create -good-hairs in the donor area after transplants to rebuff the donor area (in effect, a hair "multiplication") so much more can be gotten from traditional transplantation.

 

[elguapo]

Very good point about giving a guy a second chance to grow hair in areas already affected by male pattern baldness, but with the potential to keep them with Finasteride. I never thought of it that way.

I have one comment on the last part of the message:

At the very least, hopefully follica can create -good-hairs in the donor area after transplants to rebuff the donor area (in effect, a hair "multiplication") so much more can be gotten from traditional transplantation.

I don't see how the Follica procedure can regenerate new hairs in the donor area. It's not because the procedure wouldn't work. Rather, my reasoning is that when hairs are taken during a Hair Transplant, they remove an entire strip of skin with the donor hairs in them, and then they pull the surrounding tissue together and stitch it up. So the donor area "real estate" is gone. Or is it that they could use the other method of donor hair extraction, in which they pull extract individual hair follicles with the "hair punch" method/tool? I guess that would work. Either way, you need to have that real estate there, right? Meaning, the donor skin area has to be their to do the dermabrasion technique in the first place, right?

 

[michael barry]

FUE transplants only take one follicular unit at a time with a small instrument. Old strip scar transplants take a great big wedge of flesh though.....................


It would probably have to be a FUE (Follicular Unit Extraction) for the process to be really usefull. John Cole, Alvi Armani, Robert Jones (toronto) all offer FUE. There are a few docs out there that only do FUE now, but for the most part the industry is still very strip-oriented. Strip is much easier on the doctor because its so much quicker of him. FUE's are tedioius, but you dont have a big zig-zag donor scar across the back of your scalp. I think FUE is superior to strip for this reason. Follica used some of the skin from a transplant patient to grow hairs on. I wonder if it was donor area skin or recipient area (frontal) skin................

 

[oyo]

What is minoxidil doing in the process of creating new follicles? that seems out of line with how it works on miniaturized follicles.

 

[michael barry]

Minoxidil is mentioned in one of the patents experimental examples (Ive read the patent). Here it is:


EXAMPLE 16

ENHANCEMENT OF EDIHN BY ADMINISTRATION OF MINOXIDIL

[000235] To determine the effect of minoxidil on EDIHN, recombinant FGF is administered 11 days after incisional wounding, as decribed in Example 11. Minoxidil administration enhances HF formation, showing that new HF can be generated by (a) disrupting the epidermis; and (b) administering a minoxidil.

EXAMPLE 17

REMOVAL OF HF BY ABRASION AND ADMINISTRATION OF EGF

[000236] Hair-bearing regions of the epidermis of mice is abraded, as decribed in Example 1, then administering recombinant EGF, as described in Example 1. This method prevents hair re-growth in the abraded areas, showing that hair can be removed by (a) disrupting the epidermal layer; and (b) administering EGF, a nucleotide encoding EGF, or a factor that increases signaling by EGF.






The patent basically looks like this...........One will be on a EGF receptor blocking drug (that costs alot of money, the one they mention is $2,000 for 30 pills). The area gets depilated or plucked. Three days later it gets dermabrated with a felt-wheeled instrument until the epidermal layer of the skin is removed. Wnt may not have to be blocked in humans because we have melanin in our skin, but wnt is blocked with DKK-1 for nine days in rodents. After nine days wnt-protiens or lithium chloride is applied. Fiberblast Growth Factor will probably also be applied at day 11. In one experiment, just wounding the skin and waiting 11 days and applying minoxidil helped form some hairs "somehow". It obviously formed more than wounding alone, or they wouldn't mention it (probably by upping blood to the area, but who knows). I imagine that everything they have found usefull will be included in their final procedure, which will be the expensive EGF-receptor blocker and FGF-factor for the 11th day onward (probably as internal pills given to you), The dkk-1 as either an internal or topical (if necessary to get pigmented hairs), and minoxidil on day 11-onwards, plus any other chemical interventions they come up with that aid the formulation of big-strong-hairs. They have mentioned in the patent a role for anti-androgens during this process during one of the embodiments. We have long known that high androgens during pregnancy result in statistically signifigant phenomena in offspring like altered lenths of fingers (long ring fingers, etc), and its assumed that baldness might be helped by having lower androgens during this time------so it might be best to be on finasteride for the month or so that these hairs are "made" in the skin also. The things they say are no-no's are ointments or anything that would dress these wounds. I dont know if they want one to forgo shampooing for a couple of weeks, but I do know that no bandages are to be used and it would be best not to sleep with one's head on the abraded area to set off any of the body's other healing mechanisms. I imagine peptides during this period, which stimulate the body's repair functions in wound healing, would not be recommended at all.

 

[Matt27]

Did you guys see where Follica is hiring for a Director of Operations:

Description of job:
Company Overview
Follica, Inc., is a start-up biotechnology company funded by blue chip investors developing breakthrough solutions for conditions of the hair follicle, including hair growth/removal, acne, and pigmentation. Follica’s lead program is a proprietary drug/device combination, based on technology licensed from the University of Pennsylvania, which for the first time stimulates growth of completely new hair follicles and also serves as a platform for other follicle related disorders.

Job Responsibilities
The Director of Operations will be responsible for working directly with Follica’s senior management team in developing the overall company strategic and operational plans, and will lead operational execution. The most important element of the role will be to ensure that Follica executes aggressively against all commercial and development goals by managing project milestones, budgets and timelines. The Director of operations will be the key liaison across the scientific and commercial functions to align R&D and business goals. The Director of Operations will have the opportunity to grow with the company into a senior management role.

Qualifications:
• Experienced professional with at least 5 years of relevant domain expertise (dermatology, medical devices, and/or drug delivery)
• Track record of successfully managing complex projects
• Advanced degree a plus (MD, related PhD or MBA)

Sounds like they're serious about getting this to market sooner rather than later!

 

[PersonGuy]

f*** em' all. I want all my hair back, and want it for all of you guys too.

I couldn't have said it better if you gave me a thesaurus and a pair of glasses. you're right buddy f*** them, if they were losing their hair they'd be here just the same.

 

[lucy923]

Michael Barry-

I first wanted to say that I know I appreciate and everyone else does too to that you contribute so much valuable info to the site man. If you had to guess, how far do you believe we are away from the most talked about coming up products like Follica, HM, Neosh, etc?? Do you realistically think that in 5 years we could have a so called cure?? ANd which products do you think will hit first?

Thanks

 

[michael barry]

If you had to guess, how far do you believe we are away from the most talked about coming up products like Follica, HM, Neosh, etc?? Do you realistically think that in 5 years we could have a so called cure?? ANd which products do you think will hit first?

They are in phase 2 at ICX, but they are going with little groups of men each time as they change up cultivation methods, numbers of injects, and probably depths of injections. It would seem like it will be a couple of years before they come up with their most optimized procedure going about it this way. Id' have taken my top 20 guesses on procedures and had 5 men treated with each of the 20 different top procedures, and went with a mixture of the best 2-3 responses. It would have taken about 100 men and would have gotten the whole thing to phase 3 in about 7-8 months. But they are going about it in the way that they are. They dont necessarily have to have a phase 3 to release a procedure, because one of ICX's skin products was released after phase two and its essentially much the same thing. One might have to go to England to get it though as our FDA might say no to that here. ICX is the company that has actually grown new hair on bald scalp in human beings at this point.


Aderans has said alot but shown little for years now except way-over-optimistic projections. I dont feel very good about them personally. Washenik was saying maybe late 2009, but I dont believe him to be honest. They are supposedly in some secret human trial in England according to some, but Ive seen no concrete proof of this.


Follica seems to really be trying to get it in the fast lane. Their product is an intentional disruption of the epidermal layer of the scalp (its removal via abrasion or laser) and the application of some substances to get the epilithial cells to make brand new hairs much like when you were a fetus. They have recruited for their first human trial and are going with 15-20 men according to them. They are saying if everything goes well, 3 years. Their tone is very optimistic though. They have, like ICX and Aderans, grown human hair on human skin grafted onto immuno-deficient mice backs.



There are two other companies in Japan that are working on Hair multiplication, Shishedo and Phoenixbio. They started later than Aderans and Intercytex though. However, the Japanese are famously devoted and focused when they turn their attention to a project. You may not hear much out of them and voila', they have something. I would bet they are a year or so behind the other companies that have been at it for a while.



Neosil...............to be truthful, this might be a much better rogaine, but I'd be suprised if some topical, other than a gene therapy, could literally get a great deal of miniaturized hairs to retain their former size. Too much apoptosis has happened within the old small follicular units. I hope its good stuff mind you, but I have my doubts about it being what HM should be (full head of hair on bald heads).

 

[lucy923]

Once again thanks a ton man.....how do you think these procedures will measure up to someone who is just in the early stages of male pattern baldness with just a little diffuse thinning and not too noticeable to the general public. For example, someone who jumped on the big 3 early and still has a decent head of hair but lost some and then one of these cures came out, will there be some sort of smaller, cheaper touch up procedure do you think without disturbing the existing hair? Also, do you think guys that did say catch it early and jump on finas/nizoral/minoxidil now will be in the safe zone and never have to worry about going bald barring that one of these treatments comes out in the next 5 years??

Also, how far away do you think Neosil is right now??

 

[cmoneyt8ker]

Can someone who knows more about this elaborate on what this means for my hairline? Big 3 has done well for me but i need to lower my hairline by about an inch.....can this process give you any hairline you want?

 

[elguapo]

Quick answer is yes, it should work for the hairline. The only potential issue is that when the hairs regrow, theoretically those hairs would have the same susceptibility to DHT, so the question is, how long will they last once they do grow back?

But perhaps others can elaborate and answer your question better than I.

Good luck. Glad to hear the big three are working for you to some degree.