It's not a matter of penetration , but more a location where minoxidil will go... ( reaching follicle without entering on the blood stream).
Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed
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This, ladies and gentleman, is what you call ‘cope’
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This, ladies and gentleman, is what you call ‘cope’
If people wanna speculate, so what? It's no worse than these "They aren't doing anything we can't do at home" people. (these guys seem to have pretty impressive devices at home to make 1600 cm/2 holes without disrupting the skin excessively, and doing it in the right pattern shown in the Follica patent.)
cloudsanrain
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Yes it dose but look at all the people that takes it oraly every day . It gets in their blood stream an It don't seem to affecting them in any way . Me included .
We do, and we also get more regowth than what Follica has shown.
Follica is not meant to improve minoxidil Pemberton. The point of minoxidil is to upregulate Wnt signalling and create hair follicle cells instead of skin cells during wound healing. It is the wounding process itself that causes hair growth, not better delivery of minoxidil.
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We do, and we also get more regowth than what Follica has shown.
Follica is not meant to improve minoxidil Pemberton. The point of minoxidil is to upregulate Wnt signalling and create hair follicle cells instead of skin cells during wound healing. It is the wounding process itself that causes hair growth, not better delivery of minoxidil.
Most people have no idea how you achieve this manually (on a micro scale, I might add?):
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Looks like pegasus2 doesn't think the pattern below is necessary, or important. (Maybe he has conducted extensive studies on it lol.) Or else he would reveal how exactly he manages to do it well-enough manually (on a micro-scale?):
I've gotten some slight results with microneedling myself (Derminator2, 1.0 - 1.2 mm) but doing the above consistently seems feasible only to a computer.
I've gotten some slight results with microneedling myself (Derminator2, 1.0 - 1.2 mm) but doing the above consistently seems feasible only to a computer.
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Follica is a commercial organization. If their solution can be replicated by individuals at home, they wouldn't make a lot of money. So it is in their interest to claim that a certain movement pattern that can only be done by a computer / robot yields significantly better results.
But of course, they would have to provide evidence for that claim.
But of course, they would have to provide evidence for that claim.
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I don't know about the pattern, but something they're doing is either magic, or marketing, if the majority of patients get 40% growth. Some people have gotten that at home, but they're few and far between.
I suspect a lot of DIY guys aren't doing the wounding correctly. They probably err on the side of going too deep because everyone wants do that by default. That increases the pain & mess & time it takes, which leads to them slacking off on the hole density too.
Also, Follica's baseline would be zero treatment of any kind. Some of the DIY guys already had regimens.
Also, Follica's baseline would be zero treatment of any kind. Some of the DIY guys already had regimens.
So I've known about this thread for 2 years and still nothing has been really nailed down yet. I'll just drop my experience..
I've been using a derma pen 1.5mm, average of 1.5 times a month for 2 years and my hair has gotten slightly worse. The only topical I've been using is reviv with their two additives (anti-gray and minoxidil analogue). Not one thing in this routine appears to be doing a damn thing; every aspect has gotten slightly worse.
I can do 2.5mm but it hurts too much to do enough passes to make the scalp nicely wounded and (lastingly) red. I guess I'll try going down to .8 and spending exponentially more time, more passes. For me, .8 is basically pain-free. Even 2.5 is not at all bothersome, specifically in the crown and the low temple near the ear. There are just no pain receptors in those areas. But the frontal scalp, the upper temple that actually tends to recede, or anything near the forehead...that all hurts badly once you go above 1.5.
So I have yet to try a more follica-like method (<1 mm and extreme thoroughness). Till now I have assumed depth is better for reviving the follicles but that's been sufficiently proven false.
I only have diffuse thinning so you'd think needling in a hair-occupied area would make it easier to get some re-density but no. One thing I may have pinpointed is collagen supplementation. My hair was arguably recovering density in 2020, when I first started using a pen and I was taking collagen powder once a day.
Side notes from needling the face
- I had a large melanin spot (sunspot, or whatever) on my cheekbone and it has disappeared from needling. It was about half the size of a dime, not terribly dark, nothing that people have ever pointed out, but I noticed it.
- Needling has done absolutely nothing for increasing facial hair density. I'm a clean shaven/stubble only guy, so I don't actually care about that, just saying.
I don't have a ton of gray or very visible gray since I have light hair. I think I have a slightly low metabolism and low thyroid function. I am a young looking person and the hair is aging faster than everything else. This is why I'm trying hard to address the problem holistically/nutritionally and topically, because being a norwood guy wouldn't suit me. I'll get FUE if my methods don't work adequately. I don't have norwood 7 genes so I can avoid it all together with surgery if nothing else works.
Historically, balding men had faces that suited that look.A lot of guys today have my situation but a lot worse, maybe NW3-4 with the face of a 20-something. That I believe is a deeper nutiritional/environmental issue and not so much 'androgenetic.' I don't believe 'androgenetic alopecia' is the correct name for our issue in a general sense.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Taking all the studies together, there is a signal of benefit from needling without minoxidil, but in practice it doesn't do much. To get good results from microneedling, minoxidil is a must. As you've experienced, wounding density is far more important than depth. I agree with you that there are things that speed up Androgenetic Alopecia today. It still requires certain genes, but things like steroid use, p**rn, or perhaps metabolic syndrome could trigger it early and increase severity.
It's also interesting that collagen supplementation seemed to aid your results. One of the best results I've seen from needling was someone using collagen powder and minoxidil.
I've tried pretty much everything with needling. What worked best for me was using a Derminator2 with 12 needle cartridges, 1mm depth at the fastest setting. I moved it slowly across the entire NW7 area and 1 inch around the perimeter, for about 30 minutes in total until my whole scalp was red als had some minor pinpoint bleeding. I did this every 2 weeks. IME it is the optimal protocol, but you can use a faster device than the D2 and spend less time on it. I noticed MASSIVE shedding of small vellus hairs within days on this protocol, soon followed by regrowth.
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I don't think I've ever caused even pinpoint-bleeding at any depth. If I can ever make myself bleed I'll take it as a good sign. My circulation is poor in some ways, most noticeable in my occasionally ice cold nose.
I have about had it with Reviv's products at $54 a month. It's all le science but no in vivo results.
I am NW6, I can feel a lot, although thin covering of vellus hairs throughout the top of my scalp. I am wondering if I died them with a hair dye if they might actually stand out. I have SMP and buzzcut my head. Would be good to give it a slight extra boost if I could make a difference by dying them. I will try it and see.
Currently also 2 months into taking Minoxidil.
Not expecting anything as I am so far gone. May also get on Propecia at some point. Give it a year, prob won't get any results and give up. I did 1 micro-needling session, prob need to do more as that was ages ago I last did it.
Currently also 2 months into taking Minoxidil.
Not expecting anything as I am so far gone. May also get on Propecia at some point. Give it a year, prob won't get any results and give up. I did 1 micro-needling session, prob need to do more as that was ages ago I last did it.
Pegasus what do you think of more frequent sessions as advocated here for skin needling by Dr Des Fernandes?
If I use that Just for Men 'Control GX' shampoo it gets rid of all the gray and adds really natural color. I have borderline blond/brown hair and use the lightest shade they have. You have to leave it on for maybe 10 minutes or so. Do that daily for a week. Actual hair dye sucks in my experience. It always has some awful brass/red tone so it requires a second toning product. This shampoo I use sometimes doesn't have that issue at all.
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I hear it's lovely this time of year