Follica - Good News!

[Moomin]

Evening gents.

I have just finished sourcing and ordering the products that i will be using for my first test of our beloved Follica patent.

TCA Peel (20%)
DMSO (70% concentration - 30% Distilled Water (1.5ml per application))
Lithium Chloride
Finasteride 1mg per day

All i'm doing now is working out the concentrations before they arrive, namely the concentration of Lithium Chloride. Presently i'm thinking of using 150mg LiCl per application. Does anyone have any other suggestions for Lithium dosing levels, and if you so what are your reasons.

Orin I believed you used Lithium Orotate, what dosage did you use. If anyone else tried using Lithium please let me know your doses also.

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[michael barry]

Moomin,

There are a couple of guys at hairsite who have synthetic egf-antagonists (getfitinib and arava) who are doing the wounding experiment on their own heads in accordance with the patent. I ordered both getfitinib and arava, but both were apparently either never sent to me or intercepted by the postmaster. I never got either in the mail, and I am out seven hundred bucks----oh well.

However, the two guys doing it are smart, therefore we will know probably within the month whether follica can be copped at home without immunosuppressants or other adjuvants if you'd like to wait and see how they fared.




Follica is going to be testing bald guys are Harvard Medical soon. I think they are still recruiting for that trial. They intend to just wound bald scalp (bald spots) in a small area. I imagine they are going to be looking to see what pathways are naturally upregulated in response to epidernal disruption on bald scalp. Follica probably knows what pathways in the skin they want to awaken due to the human skin on SCID mice experiments. I imagine they want to see what happens on bald scalp and what role the immune system might play in the process good or bad. Then they will probably have a good idea of what they can either scratch off the list of necessary adjuvants or what they might have to add to supress or induce one pathway or another to replicate the SCID mice/human skin success in vivo on a human being. The ball is rolling on it now, and that is great news.




Im personally also excited about ACELL's potential in human beings (check out their website and look at some of the animal pics where animals regrow tissue and hair after wouding.........neat stuff). They use some sort of pig-bladder extract powder on wounds and it gets stem cell populations to rebuild the tissues afterwards. Alot of the pics show new hair growth on new skin after really bad wounds on horses, cats, and dogs. Its interesting stuff.

 

[superhl]

Moomin,
On my first test I applied Lithium Orotate and DMSO. I abraded the skin for 3 days. I don't have a way to measure, but I mixed 100mg to Lithium to enough DMSO until the Lithium was completed dissolved. I applied daily for eleven days. I noticed on day 3 or 4 my scalp begin to heal so I abraded again for 2 more days. Am starting to see re-growth but I really can't tell if any new follicles have developed. My daughter says she sees really small hairs developing. I also washed my hair with Nizoral daily since I have hair. It appears the goal is to keep the scalp in an embryonic state, then why not abrade the scalp daily for eleven days while applying the solution? I remember as a kid we would apply a solution (poultice) to wounded horses to prevent scar tissue from developing within the wound. This solution would keep the wound in a raw state allowing the area to heal very slowly. We would apply this daily and upon healing most of the hair would return.....

 

[Moomin]

Thanks for the info superhl. I assume you used 100mg of Lithium Orotate daily, during your experiment.

Also Superhl what form of abrasion did you use, how deep do you think you damaged the skin and what did the skin look like after you finshed your abrasion?

Out of interest how long ago did you conduct your experiment before you daughter noticed regrowth (that question goes out to anyone who has noticed regrowth using some variation of the Follica patent.

By the way i'm not sure that we want to keep the skin in a continued embyronic state, only long enough for the activation of epdiermal / dermal stem cells. Once activated these stem cells can be coaxed into becoming new hair follicles during reepithelialisation / healing stage.

If anyone else has tried an experiment with success or failure let me know.

 

[superhl]

Moomin,
I abraded with sandpaper. I continued until the area was pink and in some areas a trickle of blood. After day 3 or 4 it scabbed over and 7 or 8 days excessive peeling almost like a bad sunburn. I used lithium 100mg. In the first post I forgot to mention I also added 5% minoxidil in the mixture with Lithium and DMSO. I am three weeks into the procedure.

 

[harold]

It does look like curcumin suppresses wnt signalling :/ Damn. This is all very tricky.

Where did you get this from?
hh

"Our results suggest that curcumin treatment impairs both Wnt signaling and cell-cell adhesion pathways, resulting in G(2)/M phase arrest and apoptosis in HCT-116 cells."

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:185199

Hmmmm. For a bit there I thought you might have gotten it from a link which was posted that didnt actually mention curcumin as inhibiting wnt signalling. Another paper mentions that curcumin inhibited the ecxpression of the wnt receptor Frizzled-1.....but as usual it is difficult to extrapolate from these results in specific cell types to epidermal cells. But thats where we are.
hh

 

[Moomin]

Hey guys,

As said earlier i'm going to try my own follica experiment as soon as all the products arrive, and I had some questions that I would have liked to get answered. Anyway it got me thinking that if everyone here who has tried the experiment told us what their experiences were in an easy and uniform format we could compare the methods experimenters used and what results they had.

Once there are enough results in I can shove all the info in a document and we can "compare and contrast". There are 18 questions and they only require short answers,so if you've got some time fill it in si'l vous plait. if nothing else it should provide a comprehensive view of what we've tried so far.

Just copy the below and paste it in a reply and answer below the question.

Cheers

Current Status
1) Extent of Hair Loss (e.g. thinning, slick bald)?

2) How long have you noticed the effects of male pattern baldness?

3) Did you use Finasteride/dutasteride/Minoxidil during your experiment

Depilation
4) Did you depilate?

5) Did you depilate the entire area to be tested or only a percentage, if so what percentage?

Abrasion
6) What method of abrasion did you use?

7) If sandpaper what grade did you use / If chemical peel which what concentration did you use/ if dermaroller needling) what depth?

8) What part of the scalp did you abrade?

9) What did the skin look like after abrasion?

Wnt compound
10) What substance did you use to upregulate Wnt (include whether topical or internal)?

11) What concentration/dose of this substance did you use?

12) How long after abrasion did you apply this substance?

EGF(R) Inhibitor
13) What (if any) substance did you use to inhibit EGF(R) (include whether topical or internal)?

14) What concentration/dose of this substance did you use?

15) How long after abrasion did you apply this substance?

16) If you mixed or applied any other substance, what was it and what concentration did you use?

Results
17) How long after abrasion did you notice increase/no increase of hair(s) in the abraded area

18) Describe the result if any (e.g. length, thickness of hair shaft, approximate hair density per cm²)?

 

[harold]

I think it would also be important to note the characteristics of the areas being treated ie How bad is hairloss in area treated: thinning? slick bald? How long has male pattern baldness been progressing in the area?
Also usage of finasteride/dutasteride, minoxidil, nizoral and possibly the age of the subject would be important.
hh

 

[Moomin]

Good suggestions Harold

I've included your suggestions in the questionnaire, apart from age as I believe the question regarding length of time suffering from male pattern baldness covers the relevance of the age question, also some people don't like revealing it, if anyone does though, feel free.

 

[Noobie]

Bizbump :hump: ... Who has started already? What did they use and what steps did they take?

 

[Moomin]

Ok so whats the deal with no one answering the questionnaire, and it going dead all of a sudden. It really doesn't take that long to answer and everyone seemed only to happy to tell us what methods they have used before, but not now??

Very suspect.

 

[messm0rph]

Can someone explain to me what exactly this Follica is.

I read about 5 pages and dont understand it.

 

[superhl]

Current Status
1) Extent of Hair Loss (e.g. thinning, slick bald)?
Receding hairline but still have hair

2) How long have you noticed the effects of male pattern baldness?
Started around the age of 28

3) Did you use Finasteride/dutasteride/Minoxidil during your experiment
Tried Finasteride but breast became sore so I stopped

Depilation
4) Did you depilate?
NO

5) Did you depilate the entire area to be tested or only a percentage, if so what percentage?
NO
Abrasion
6) What method of abrasion did you use?
SandPaper –

7) If sandpaper what grade did you use / If chemical peel which what concentration did you use/ if dermaroller needling) what depth?
fine
8) What part of the scalp did you abrade?
temples
9) What did the skin look like after abrasion?
Pink/red
Wnt compound
10) What substance did you use to upregulate Wnt (include whether topical or internal)?
100mg lithium / minoxidil 5% / DMSO – Mixed 99% DMSO to lithium until liquefied
11) What concentration/dose of this substance did you use?

12) How long after abrasion did you apply this substance?
3 days
EGF(R) Inhibitor
13) What (if any) substance did you use to inhibit EGF(R) (include whether topical or internal)?

14) What concentration/dose of this substance did you use?

15) How long after abrasion did you apply this substance?

16) If you mixed or applied any other substance, what was it and what concentration did you use?

Results
17) How long after abrasion did you notice increase/no increase of hair(s) in the abraded area
About two weeks could see what appeared to be old hair rejuvenated

18) Describe the result if any (e.g. length, thickness of hair shaft, approximate hair density per cm²)?
Maybe five hairs – not enough to make me do backflips

 

[goata007]

Depilation
4) Did you depilate?
NO

You should have removed the vellus hair from your temples. That would have increased the number of rejuvenated hairs, as plucking puts hair back into anagen (hair growth) phase - which none of the drugs/techniques you're using do.

 

[Moomin]

Hey SuperHL thanks for being the first to fill in the questionnaire, some useful info there. It would be interesting to see the results of those people that have depilated to those who have not. I can see how depiliation could be considered more onerous especially if it needs to be done on the crown as you'd probably need a third party to help you out.

Goata007 if you've tried the patent perhaps you would like to have a go at filling in the questionnaire.

 

[goata007]

Goata007 if you've tried the patent perhaps you would like to have a go at filling in the questionnaire.

I haven't experimented yet, I will in about a week or two.

 

[superhl]

You should have removed the vellus hair from your temples. That would have increased the number of rejuvenated hairs, as plucking puts hair back into anagen (hair growth) phase - which none of the drugs/techniques you're using do.

How is the best way to remove the vellus hair? I am going to try this again. How long should I wait?

 

[Moomin]

I should think the easiest way to depilate it to use a tweezer although it is time intensive, there are machines that tweeze, but i don't think they'd be suitable.

The Patent suggests depilating first then waiting for 3 days and then wounding

 

[masculineyourheart]

The patent suggests using Nair. Seriously.

Example 1: Depilation and epidermal abrasion causes de novo hair follicle formation.

Depilation and epidermal abrasion. Mice were anesthetized with an injection of sodium pentobarbital before the hair on the back was clipped and depilated with Nair (Carter- Wallace, New York, NY), then epidermis was removed using a rotating felt wheel as described by Argyris T, J. Invest. Dermatol. 75: 360 (1980). After scrubbing with 70% ethanol and drying under an incandescent lamp, the basal and supra-basal layers in an area of 1.5 cm2/cm of the inter-follicular epidermis were removed by careful abrasion with a felt wheel mounted on a Dremel Moto-tool (Racine, WI). After abrasion, the skin was shiny and smooth, and there was no blood. One day later, the abraded area was covered by a fibrin crust, which fell off after 3—7 days, exposing the newly regenerated epidermis. A group of control mice was sacrificed immediately after abrasion to confirm microscopically the complete removal of the interfollicular epidermis.

 

[Moomin]

The problem with nair is that it does not remove the hair from the root but only dissolves the hair above the skin surface, therefore no new hair shaft is created. Instead the old hair shaft just continues to grow, which becomes visible in 1 to 3 days. It has the same effect as shaving and so isn't really effective for our purposes.

RESULTS

[000211 ] To determine whether human skin responded to EDIHN as did mouse skin, human skin was grafted onto SCID (immuno-deficient) mice and subjected to depilation by plucking and wound induction three days later. Seven days following wound induction, formation of new HF was observed in the human skin (Figure 2 IA; arrows indicate new HF) by hematoxylin and eosin staining of paraffin embedded tissue sections.