FLUX DENSITY in LLLT - Is the value 4Jcm-2 correct?

[losing hair]

I’d like to compare my calculations of J/cm2 with others. Some people tell me rather 2.5Jcm-2 is a more correct jvalue. And how many J should be delivered in one LLLT session? Thanks to all who will share their knowledge and findings - and help progress LLLT. Also thanks to all those who don't like LLLT to stay away from this thread...Thank you It may too complicated reading for you..

 

[hellouser]

Lasers are a scam. Don't waste your time on this garbage.

 

[Python]

Lasers are a scam. Don't waste your time on this garbage.

+1

 

[Hairbackpls]

Lasers are a scam. Don't waste your time on this garbage.

+2

 

[SayifDoit]

Pictures?? haha

 

[2young2retire]

those fields have a huge impact on the next things.

vegf
nitric oxide
apoptosys rate.

scam or not this thing about fields is proven and backed with papers and studies all over the academic world.

 

[benjt]

Well, 2young2retire, I'd be very interested in seeing these "proves in papers and studies all over the academic world". I've asked for that each time this laser bullsh1t was mentioned by the salesmen on here, and never were they able to provide any proof. I've also done some extensive searching for sources myself, and could not find any paper with supporting evidence.

And to the general topic:

Lasers are a scam. Don't waste your time on this garbage.

+3

 

[2young2retire]

benjt here is one of dozens

http://lbk.fe.uni-lj.si/pdfs/bemd2004.pdf

now dont forget that led can produce ultraviolet light which is electromagnetic radiation. aint it?

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http://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00167-014-3143-x

 

[benjt]

What does that have to do with hair growth? The first article says "electric currents stimulate wound healing", the second one says "there are cells that react to electric fields". Wow, no **** sherlock!

now dont forget that led can produce ultraviolet light which is electromagnetic radiation. aint it?

Yes, and so is visible light. I suggest we now use light bulbs to treat baldness. Cause light is electromagnetic radiation!!!11

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Has anybody seen this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25191036 . A member of this forum sent me this link. Looks like some are at least seeing some results from LLLT. I hope I eventually get the same benefit. So far not much to talk about.

 

[2young2retire]

but sir

if you take a second look on these articles you will see that various factors are increased like N0. like Vegf most of these are key factors in male pattern baldness.

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i am not claimming that lllt WILL regrow hair. the tech has some impact on our cells and is described in the field articles. the "density" of uv "lines" from sth like the sun is much less than if we apply the source much closer.

 

[losing hair]

but sir

if you take a second look on these articles you will see that various factors are increased like N0. like Vegf most of these are key factors in male pattern baldness.

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i am not claimming that lllt WILL regrow hair. the tech has some impact on our cells and is described in the field articles. the "density" of uv "lines" from sth like the sun is much less than if we apply the source much closer.

Not all "senior members" share the view of the Gurdians of this forum". Actually it seems that more the green bars to your belt you have the more limited your view is..
I suggest all to read the following links..


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lsm.1900090103/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lsm.1900160404/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19366270?dopt=Abstract

It might, just might, help some to open their eyes to alternatives...

 

[benjt]

Not all "senior members" share the view of the Gurdians of this forum". Actually it seems that more the green bars to your belt you have the more limited your view is..
I suggest all to read the following links..


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lsm.1900090103/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lsm.1900160404/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19366270?dopt=Abstract

It might, just might, help some to open their eyes to alternatives...

Done. Money quote from the abstracts and conclusions:

The fundamental question is whether there is sufficient evidence to support the use of LLLT. [...]
In humans, beneficial effects [...] have not been replicated in larger studies.
[...]
effectiveness is arguable, and FDA approval has not been granted for any indication.
[...]
work in all these areas suffered from flawed methodology, incomplete discription, limited blinding, and nonexistant controls.
[...]
although laboratory findings seem authentic, clinical utility remains unestablished.

 

[2young2retire]

benjt what is your idea here?

really now....

light source emmits energy which might be enough for cell signalling. if you take a skin bald subject then no. it will not cure him.aparently nth will except 30 000 grafts

 

[benjt]

"Light source emits energy". Yeah, so do hifi speakers, a heating, or a frikkin truck falling on your head. All of them emit energy.

Seriously, "emits energy and thus might do stuff" is probably the most simplicistic and useless approach possible.

By the way, the most well-known way that light affects cell signaling is: sun exposure inducing cell apoptosis. Awesome!


And what my idea here is? This guy claims he has studies which confirm that his laser bullsh1t works, when in fact they state the exact opposite. That guy is a liar and probably a salesman. It's quite a "coincidence" that his account registered exactly after the last salesman was banned, don't you think?

 

[bushbush]

probably a salesman. It's quite a "coincidence" that his account registered exactly after the last salesman was banned, don't you think?

Won't be long before he links us all to his eBay page.

 

[Python]

Won't be long before he links us all to his eBay page.

LMAO, haha, ohh man, I needed that XD

 

[anxious1]

LMAO, hes in quite a bind. hes put all this energy into building up threads and setting up the scene to link to his product, threads about LLLT etc, yet as soon as he does link to his product he will be banned and thread deleted, but whats the point in all this work hes done, if he doesnt eventually get to mention or link to his product.

 

[uncomfortable man]

"if you take a skin bald subject then no. it will not cure him."

And that is why this "tech" gets a hook shot in the circular file.... really now.

 

[losing hair]

LMAO, haha, ohh man, I needed that XD

Well well well - 12 hour flight and jet leg - and I missed a lot of fun gents here..... what is "XD"?

I don't have time to respond to all your silly remarks - I have life...You all forget one thing - that I am not selling anything - I just simply want to find out the experiences of all guys who used LLLT product with a success - or NOT - and thus far NOBODY, not a single one used them long enough - where are all those thousands of disgruntled guys who bought the stupid FDA approved laser comb also sold on this very website? - To happily report a great success and NW1.... Why this does not bother you? - you react so swiftly to my thread about LLLT - and yet, so conveniently leave this website quietly selling the stupid CON... are you Guardians of this forum? - are you IT? the very Forum people? Protecting this shop?

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"Light source emits energy". Yeah, so do hifi speakers, a heating, or a frikkin truck falling on your head. All of them emit energy.

Seriously, "emits energy and thus might do stuff" is probably the most simplicistic and useless approach possible.

By the way, the most well-known way that light affects cell signaling is: sun exposure inducing cell apoptosis. Awesome!


And what my idea here is? This guy claims he has studies which confirm that his laser bullsh1t works, when in fact they state the exact opposite. That guy is a liar and probably a salesman. It's quite a "coincidence" that his account registered exactly after the last salesman was banned, don't you think?

Benjt - now you behave like a child with tantrum - maybe this Energy "stuff"is getting above your "rank".....my studies DID include comments on how "non conclusive" LLLT studies so far are...."inconclusive" to me translates as "not dismissed" - and that satisfies me....what satisfies you? banning everybody who talks about something outside this forum/shop selling stuff? tell me - I am curious.....