http://www.transgendercare.com/medical/ ... gimens.asp
screw this, i'm just gonna shave it! :thumbdown2:
screw this, i'm just gonna shave it! :thumbdown2:
Finasteride used by transgender patients??
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Mestys
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Yes be careful with Finasteride, you may wake up one day with a Vagina. :whistle:
In all seriousness, I don't see what this has to do with your decision of taking Finasteride. Yes it seems it's one of the many drugs they take, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues and also has been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme, maybe one of the reasons they take it?
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the main reason they take it is to avoid hair loss, a bald transgender isn't really the desired look is it?
In all seriousness, I don't see what this has to do with your decision of taking Finasteride. Yes it seems it's one of the many drugs they take, DHT directly inhibits estrogens activity on tissues and also has been shown to directly block the production of estrogens from androgens by inhibiting the activity of the aromatase enzyme, maybe one of the reasons they take it?
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the main reason they take it is to avoid hair loss, a bald transgender isn't really the desired look is it?
T
TravisB
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Besides Finasteride (6 mg instead of 1 mg), they take:
- Estradiol 6 - 8 mg
- Spironolactone 100 - 200 mg
- Progestin (progesterone) 5 - 10 mg
And those are much, much stronger than finasteride.
Only Finasteride isn't going to transform you into a woman.
But seriously, someone must be pretty nuts to take all these drugs.
- Estradiol 6 - 8 mg
- Spironolactone 100 - 200 mg
- Progestin (progesterone) 5 - 10 mg
And those are much, much stronger than finasteride.
Only Finasteride isn't going to transform you into a woman.
But seriously, someone must be pretty nuts to take all these drugs.
Mestys said:
EXACTLY.
Which is why i dont understand how anyon can claim there are only side effects in 2%. Regardless of how aware of them you are, that drug must have a feminizing effect on your body.
I wish i could save my hair but im not prepared to be less masculine than the guy next to me just because i have male pattern baldness. Ffs hurry up with this 'cure'
Mestys
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The effect that this process has on the body is an increase of estrogen by around 15%. For the majority of men, this is negligible and according to Merck falls within the limits.
This will not cause any feminizing effects, Finasteride is not an anti androgen. Testosterone levels actually INCREASE by around 15%.
The only side effect this could cause is gyno, and for most men this side effect is rare. I could imagine it being a problem if the person taking finasteride already had a high level of estrogen and finasteride pushed them over the limits.
This will not cause any feminizing effects, Finasteride is not an anti androgen. Testosterone levels actually INCREASE by around 15%.
The only side effect this could cause is gyno, and for most men this side effect is rare. I could imagine it being a problem if the person taking finasteride already had a high level of estrogen and finasteride pushed them over the limits.
BritishUser
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I'd read that finasteride could have an effect on body hair - possibly reducing it - but I've noticed no real difference. I'm still pretty hairy.
Hairforever
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This argument that because male hairloss sufferers only take 1mg of finasteride they won't feminize their bodies as opposed to transgender patients who take 6mg is a shaky one. Sure it's not going to turn you into a woman but there can be subtle changes that go unnoticed over time.
People say even 0.25mg of finasteride can cause side effects, and 1 mg wipes out your DHT hormone. Amongst other things, DHT helps to define male characteristics, so of course taking finasteride is going to have some kind of demasculating effect, even if it is, for example, distribution of fat in places normally associated with women.
Factor in brain fog and the possible long term effects on memory in old age and you are taking a gamble. The temptation is to keep looking at your hair and ignoring the changes in your body, mind and general wellbeing that finasteride could be causing.
And anyone who thinks only 2% of finasteride takers suffer side effects is deluding themselves. Messing with hormones, all of which are in our body for a positive reason, is a dangerous game, short term, medium term or long term.
People say even 0.25mg of finasteride can cause side effects, and 1 mg wipes out your DHT hormone. Amongst other things, DHT helps to define male characteristics, so of course taking finasteride is going to have some kind of demasculating effect, even if it is, for example, distribution of fat in places normally associated with women.
Factor in brain fog and the possible long term effects on memory in old age and you are taking a gamble. The temptation is to keep looking at your hair and ignoring the changes in your body, mind and general wellbeing that finasteride could be causing.
And anyone who thinks only 2% of finasteride takers suffer side effects is deluding themselves. Messing with hormones, all of which are in our body for a positive reason, is a dangerous game, short term, medium term or long term.
Hairforever said:
A few things I just want to say about this. You talk as though transgendered people ALL take finasteride. I don't think ALL of them do. Also you act as though finasteride is the main thing they take to "feminize" themselves. I also believe this isn't true. I would think estrogen would be the main tool there.
Also, 1mg doesn't "wipe out" your DHT..it lowers it significantly but..it doesnt wipe it out down to nothing.
There are plenty of tough dudes out there who take finasteride and aren't feminized. Go look at Peabody's thread in the success stories and then tell me finasteride feminizes people. The dude is massively jacked and continues to get bigger while taking finasteride. The only "feminizing" problem I've heard of from finasteride is the gyno, which seems really rare. I often see people complain about ED or libido, but its very rare that I see someone with genuine gyno on here.
With that said, I agree that messing with your hormones is not ideal...but right now its the most effective treatment and there are a lot of people who seem to be doing just fine on it. There are many guys who have been taking this for close to 20 years and are still fully functional.
Hairforever
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No. I didn't talk as if all transgender people take finasteride or that finasteride is the main thing they take to feminize themselves. That is purely your interpretation of my post. I was simply responding to a previous post.
That said, there is no denying that finasteride does have a feminizing effect on some users. Ok 'wipe out of DHT' might have been an exaggeration but finasteride still significantly lowers DHT levels. We can all point to individual cases but there are no long-term studies of the effect of finasteride on users.
Who knows what depriving your body for 20 or more years of an important hormone, albeit one that has been cited as at least partly responsible for causing baldness in some men, will do to you mentally or physically. Time, as they say, will tell. We all want to keep and/or regrow our hair. But at what cost?
That said, there is no denying that finasteride does have a feminizing effect on some users. Ok 'wipe out of DHT' might have been an exaggeration but finasteride still significantly lowers DHT levels. We can all point to individual cases but there are no long-term studies of the effect of finasteride on users.
Who knows what depriving your body for 20 or more years of an important hormone, albeit one that has been cited as at least partly responsible for causing baldness in some men, will do to you mentally or physically. Time, as they say, will tell. We all want to keep and/or regrow our hair. But at what cost?
Hairforever said:
Lowering DHT levels can reduce body hair, which is a desirable trait for transgendered individuals. Also, since DHT is an antagonist to Estrogen, it would be in the best interest to decrease it as much as possible in order to achieve sustained heightened estrogen levels. Lowering DHT on its own will not produce feminizing effects in the average male, except for the rare case of gynecomastia. Finasteride raises estrogen levels slightly, and I believe men who develop gyno already have borderline high estrogen levels to begin with.
You are correct that DHT defines male sexual characteristics, but there is not significant evidence to suggest it maintains any of these features after puberty has completed.
Take a look at this study:
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/760049
Inhibition of 5ARI and subsequent decrease of DHT levels by roughly 95% exhibits no negative impact on muscle development, sexual function or fat levels.
You may not be taking into account the fact that transgendered individuals who undergo hormonal treatments also supplement estrogen levels, raising them quite significantly. This does induce feminizing effects on men, but the small increase in estrogen levels that results from finasteride use is much too little for these effects to occur; aside from rare cases of gynecomastia, which is a condition that affects men even if they don't take finasteride.
Some long term studies on finasteride indicate that side effects may actually be lower than the 2% that was determined in the original FDA trails for Propecia. I have yet to see any long-term, placebo controlled studies that indicate side effects are significantly higher than around 2% give or take, and believe the perceived increased incidence rates on hair loss forums are due to a strong sample bias, compounded by the potential involvement of psychosomatic symptoms.
gh05 said:
DUDE! They are taking it at SIX HUNDRED TIMES THE RECOMMENDED DOSE!. Not only that, but they are taking oral Sprio! Seriously, why are you freaking out about this? As someone said before, one of the reason they take these drugs is to keep the hair on their head.
You remind me of my ultra-conservative parents. You throw the baby out with the bathwater. My parents teach that you shouldn't have pre-marital sex. Therefore, they also told their kids that they shouldn't even kiss someone UNTIL THEY WERE MARRIED! Why? Because "kissing is the first step to sex". GAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!! Of course finasteride at high doses could have some side effects...but the same is true with any other drug.
Do you drink soda? f***! Better stop that right now! Soda has caffeine in it, and caffeine can KILL YOU UNTIL YOU'RE DEAD (if you have too much of it)!!!!
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Chris87 said:
Somewhat along these same lines is the fact that Proscar contains 5 mg of finasteride per tablet, while Propecia contains only 1 mg. Why do they have such a difference in dosage between those products? Because Proscar is slightly more effective at 5 mg. Not a whole heck of a lot, but BPH is a more serious disease than male pattern baldness, and they take fewer chances.
Here is my experience. I have been taking 1mg of finasteride/propecia for the last 6 years since I was 17 and I have NOT had any feminizing effects. I am 23 now and I haven't grown a single boob, my chest is hairy just like normal men have, my penis haven't shrunk a bit (might have actually grown since I was 17), I have a normal confident erection, I have male-type body, broad shoulders, and muscular arms and depth of my voice remained unchanged. I still like women and I am actively interested in them. But still, I'm gonna speak for myself only. I dont exclude that some men have experienced these effects.
And yet I have prevented further hair loss and actually regrown it a bit without any side effects. Maybe I am just lucky.
And yet I have prevented further hair loss and actually regrown it a bit without any side effects. Maybe I am just lucky.
I would be more worried about what 15 percent higher estrogen would do long term that you never notice. It falls within normal range that is fine, but that does not mean it has no effects just because you dont see boobs sprout up or something. Small things can play a role in many poorly understood things and lots of stuff in the body happens very gradually and in subtle ways over time adds up to big changes where its hard to pin down exactly where or how it happened.
Anyway you slice it having more E and less DHT does make you closer to a female in terms of hormonal profile then you were before you took it. I wouldnt be suprised if after many years on it subtle changes take place like maybe facial changes or other things but they are probably slight and impossible to ever attribute directly to propecia. I worry much more about that kind of thing than say obvious sexual sides or something obvious to spot
Anyway you slice it having more E and less DHT does make you closer to a female in terms of hormonal profile then you were before you took it. I wouldnt be suprised if after many years on it subtle changes take place like maybe facial changes or other things but they are probably slight and impossible to ever attribute directly to propecia. I worry much more about that kind of thing than say obvious sexual sides or something obvious to spot