finasteride replacement

[etranger]

Hi all,

I've introduced myself in another section, but basically I'm 27, a diffuse frontal thinner. My pattern loss doesn't follow the norwood scale....basically a NW1 in terms of the hairline but with the diffuse loss you can easily see through the scalp all over.

I dye my hair each month, as I have premature grey. I've been doing this for past 10 years...My dad had the same condition. In fact, my hair loss pattern is pretty similar to his as well so I think the cause is mostly genetic....but things are starting to happen earlier for me.

I have a slightly high level of free testosterone...

Anyways, i started my regimen about a month ago. I started with nizoral + Tricomin while I waited for a visit to a derm for prescriptions. I also took multivitamin supplements not only for hair but for general health reasons....anyways along the front hairline I definitely see new growth. I see small pieces of hair sticking out from here and there...a few random ones on my temples as well. I'm not sure if this is happening all over my hair because only the front I can be sure they are coming out. I haven't notice any change in my look, as it's probably too early for this anyways...

Now the bad news. I got on finasteride as I got the prescription from the doctor last week. I began and started to notice a possible side effect right away (in less than a week). Basically, my erections are not as hard as before (~75%) and they don't last unless i stimulate it constantly. Also, no morning woodies. I think i'm gonna hold off finasteride for now until my next visit to the doctor....I just hated the feelings.

The reason why I got on finasteride is i was still shedding despite the regrowth. I believe this is nothing new. I think I need a DHT inhibitor/depressant in my regimen, but scared about the finasteride because it gave me side effects in like a couple of days...What do you guys suggest? Which one would be the best for me to add in addition to nizoral + Tricomin?

 

[FCÂ]

Never had a need to use it myself but I would recommend looking into coal tar extract.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum ... 51547.html

If you decide on it, this might be a product worth checking out:

http://www.scytera.com/

 

[etranger]

Take a look at the link in my signature.

Thanks for the info. It was very helpful. Would you make any recommendation? RU sounds good but seems a bit expensive and requires some processing...would S5 be a more convenient option? Seems like other potent inhibitors are not yet available?

 

[UunoTurhapuro]

Has anyone verified the purity of chemical ordered from that chinese company?

 

[etranger]

Hey guys, i'm off finasteride for 24 hrs and the side effects are completely gone. I was on it for only 5 days (1mg/day) so i guess the quick turn around wasn't that surprising? Or could it be that the side effect was just my body's initial response and now it was adjusting to the dosage?

Would trying a lower dosage a good idea (.25 - .5mg)?

 

[Wuffer]

I would recommend trying finasteride again.. There is a good chance that the sides will 'even out' after a couple months, or even after the first couple weeks. Usually side effects present themselves at around the 1-month mark, so I am surprised you saw them so suddenly. Your body definitely goes through an adjustment period when starting finasteride, but most people don't have any sides during this time.

Don't mess with dosages, just take the regular 1MG/day consistently for a couple months before deciding where to go from there. If you have sides, you will have them regardless of the dose you take.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that you will have persistent side effects from finasteride; don't use this as a reason to not try the drug again.

 

[anxious1]

I've never understood the whole take less finasteride for less side effects and the same effectiveness idea. There must be something to it, because doctors sometimes prescribe the lower dose for people who experience side effects, and i've heard Dr rassman talk about it b4.

ok, im not a noob, i have some medical knowledge being a medical science student. I understand the dose response curve for finasteride is almost flat, so i think with .5 mg u get about 80% the effectiveness of 1mg. And with .2 mg its only a fraction lower, somewhere between 70% and 80% of the effectiveness of 1mg. (the percentages maybe a bit different, i think thats in the ballpark.)

So my question is this, being that the side effects are a response to inhibiting the conversion of Testosterone into Dihydro - testosterone (DHT) through inhibiting 5a reductase enzyme, and not simply from say the fillers in the pill or something, why shouldn't the side effects decrease at the same rate as effectiveness, as the dose is decreased?

so if halving the dose only decreases conversion of testosterone into DHT approx 20%, then shouldn't halving the dose only reduce side effects by 20%?

some people make it sound like by reducing the dose to .2mg, u will eliminate side effects, while still maintaining 70-80% of the positive effects. I don't understand this.

In my opinion, reducing the dose to .2mg will only marginally reduce side effects, the same way it marginally reduces effectiveness.

opinions?

 

[Bryan]

So my question is this, being that the side effects are a response to inhibiting the conversion of Testosterone into Dihydro - testosterone (DHT) through inhibiting 5a reductase enzyme, and not simply from say the fillers in the pill or something, why shouldn't the side effects decrease at the same rate as effectiveness, as the dose is decreased?

so if halving the dose only decreases conversion of testosterone into DHT approx 20%, then shouldn't halving the dose only reduce side effects by 20%?

some people make it sound like by reducing the dose to .2mg, u will eliminate side effects, while still maintaining 70-80% of the positive effects. I don't understand this.

In my opinion, reducing the dose to .2mg will only marginally reduce side effects, the same way it marginally reduces effectiveness.

EXACTLY! You've hit the nail squarely on the head! The things you read on hairloss sites (like the example you gave in your next-to-last sentence above) are just a lot of silliness, in my opinion, and for the reasons you've explained very clearly.

 

[etranger]

i'll get on it at full dosage again for a week and see how it goes...thanks everyone

 

[stanleysteamer]

As stupid as it sounds, I am going to try a reduced dosage regimen. It's a last resort. Maybe it works, it probably doesn't, but I'll give it a shot.

I have been on the big 3 for 4 months now. I didn't notice any initial sides but after 4 months, they had become increasingly noticeable to the point that they're not manageable. My doctor recommended taking 1mg every other day, I doubt it will work, but I'll try it. When I say "work," I guess I'm looking for a balance - I'm okay with reduced effectiveness of finasteride if there is a reduction in sides. Not likely but my alternative is to stop finasteride altogether, which is not an attractive option. I've been off finasteride for one week now, no prolems with sides, but I lose 5-8x the amount of hair in the mornings that I did before I stopped taking it so I'm already panicking about that. Took my first 1mg dose this morning, I'm going to try every other day and see what happens.

 

[keepinthehair]

You stated you maintained 75% wood on the 1.0mg and hypothetically may expect a 20% decrease in side effects on 0.5 mg? That leaves you with 95% wood. Certainly more noticable to the owner.
Correct, most people have messed with dosing to find a "personalized dose" because of the fairly flat dose response curve. Hell, I read the clinical trials before taking it as well and was successful with 0.25 mg for over a year. Had to boost to 0.5 for another year and just now on 0.5 mg twice a day and doing great with the pecker.

The poster, Enden, suggest taking around 50-100 mg Zinc daily. I would suggest you give this a try. It will help put the lead in your pencil!

 

[anxious1]

You stated you maintained 75% wood on the 1.0mg and hypothetically may expect a 20% decrease in side effects on 0.5 mg? That leaves you with 95% wood. Certainly more noticable to the owner.

i may be misunderstanding someone here, forgive me if i am but. . .

if side effects on 1 mg mean 75% erection, compared to 100% b4 finasteride, then a 20% decrease in side effects on .5mg would not mean a 95% 'woody' lol.

because the side effects are essentially that 25% . a 20% reduction in side effects, would be 20% of that 25%. (25% becomes the new 100%) so 1/5th of the 25% is 5%. Therefore the 75% erection would become a 80% erection when side effects r reduced 20%.

 

[etranger]

well i woulnd't really care for 70 vs 80 vs 90% wood lol. I'm just not happy the fact that my body is showing side effects already which imo tells me I have higher potential for perm side effects...

 

[keepinthehair]

Anxious1 is correct,

The 20% decrease in side effect must come from the 25% loss of wood (side effect) Not 20% of a perfectly full woody before finasteride was added. Therefore, we can expect only a 5% additional wood boost when decreasing the finasteride dose in half.

This helps explain the relatively flat dose response. The destruction of the 5a enzyme appears al or nothing, for a period of time at least. Eventually the body either realizes it is void of DHT and begins to increase 5a or the follicles adapt their receptors to accpt Test and carry on with male pattern baldness. This is why we have to stay ahead of the genetic predisposition game and change methods.

 

[stanleysteamer]

Does anybody know if it matters what time of day you take Zinc in comparison to finasteride - should they be taken at the same time? I had been taking finasteride in the morning, Zinc before bed. Probably doesn't make a difference but somebody might know better than I do.