http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/35803 The guy in this thread takes 5 mg of finasteride ands dissolve in 50 mL then take 0.75 mL every day equate that to 0.15 mg of food every day! He also had a pretty crazy regiment as well. But just in regards to taking finasteride is this guy genius or what? I've read the lower doses perform as well as higher doses for blocking DHT,so does a lower dose really mean less likelihood of side effects?
finasteride low doses
- Thread starter Greybeer
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i wonder if this would work better for people who experience increased test and upregulation of ARs on normal doses of finasteride, like myself. Perhaps if you minimized DHT just enough, your body wouldn't go haywire and start counteracting it?? hmmm...
I know this low of a dose is abnormal but I thought it was said that low doses of finasteride are just as effective
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There are no studies of doses of finasteride of 0.02, 0.03, or 0.04 mg/day, only 0.01 and 0.05.
I estimate the sweet spot as being ~0.03 mg/day.
I estimate the sweet spot as being ~0.03 mg/day.
Norwood One
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Yeah I'm feeling sides even on 0.125 EOD (2nd attempt). Damn this **** is powerful.
Gonna drop it again till I get my morning wood back.
Gonna drop it again till I get my morning wood back.
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Try dropping it to 0.03 and stay there for two weeks.
Norwood One
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Thinking about it. What do we dissolve it in to make the liquid drinkable formula again? Just regular alcohol like vodka?
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Yes, why not vodka?
WangMQ
Established Member
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0.03 is way too low... I can't find that graph right now but I remember 0.05 to be the least amount to have DHT reduction of any meaning to us and 0.1 to be nearly as significant as higher? Then when you go higher than 0.2 there is almost no difference anymore.
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Similar case as mine.:dunno:
I've been thinking...Are we fighting a war we're bound to lose? Because a lot of guys on microdosing, including this one, shulk, and desmond on BTT never took finasteride on 1mg before starting microdosing. Maybe if they did they wouldn't have sides on 1mg either. And we guys getting sides are just fxxked no matter how cautious we are.
Anyway microdosing is still no doubt a safer method and I see no point in not trying it for a new starter.
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I'll get back to you later in the day.
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Wang, I will summarize the arguments here, to the best I know them. Note that this is an ongoing conversation on the forum, both involving myself and others, and thus the level of knowledge and wisdom is evolving as well.
The issue is that full DHT inhibition (~60-70%) in the scalp and then the serum is reached very quickly, definitely by ~0.07 mg/day. After that it's a nearly flat response curve. We don't know what the response curve is for the other hormones affected by finasteride, nor do we know the response curve of finasteride in the brain or in the prostate for that matter.
You can find some info in this thread:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/98862-Why-is-the-recommended-finasteride-dosage-for-treating-BPH-5-mg
Why is the recommended finasteride dosage for treating BPH 5 mg?
In this thread:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/98373-Topical-finasteride-microdosing-as-additional-treatment
Topical finasteride microdosing as additional treatment?
And in this thread:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/98490-Microdosing-on-finasteride-Updates
Microdosing on finasteride - Updates?
Now I will summarize some of the arguments:
1) The Japan Study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15319158
It showed that the effectiveness of 0.20 mg/day at increasing hair count is nearly identical to that of 1.00 mg/day.
So if you increase your dose by a factor of 5 (!!!!!), you'll have marginally more hair growth. A very small number, the difference is smaller, substantially smaller, than the error bars.
2) The Drake et al. study:
The effects of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels in men with androgenetic alopecia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10495374
They measured the effect of doses of placeboo 0.01, 0.05, 0.20, 1.00, and 5.0 mg daily of finasteride, and they found the following:
http://s23.postimg.org/iip5fa1pn/finasteride.png
http://www.regrowshair.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/SkinScalp.jpg
At 0.01 mg/day, benefit is marginal. At 0.05 mg/day, you get maximal inhibition in the skin, but only two thirds of the inhibition in the blood (50% instead of 70%). This means that the effect of finasteride in the skin saturates earlier than it does in the blood. If you assume that reducing scalp DHT is more important than reducing serum DHT, and less risky, than some dose between 0.01 and 0.05 mg/day is ideal. This study is after 42 days of daily dose, so we can assume hormonal equilibrium.
The Drake study can also be understood as independently confirming the Japan study. If your priority is hair first, 0.20 mg/day is definitely fine, as shown by two separate studies.
3) This final point is from a topical study, which I think is related to Polichem's research
https://www.researchgate.net/public...one_in_healthy_men_with_androgenetic_alopecia
At low doses of their topical solution, they get full skin inhibition of DHT without full blood inhibition of DHT. This shows that after 1 week of treatment with their topical formulation, 0.22 mg/day is adequate at fully suppressing scalp DHT while minimally suppressing blood DHT. But it's only 1 week. I bet they'd have to cut the dose further after say, four weeks. Finasteride hangs around for a while.
Note: "b.i.d." means twice a day. , "o.d." means once a day.
Interestingly, at a high dose, there is no difference between once a day or once every two days for the blood ... but the skin cares. Maybe skin processes T->DHT much more rapidly than the blood does?
WangMQ
Established Member
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Those were some very comprehensive studies David! Solid contribution to the community.
We should keep the collection going and try opening a new summarizing thread at some point.
The graph I mentioned before was this one:
But I read the source link again today. It never pointed out whether the graph was for serum or scalp DHT. It seems to match the serum DHT inhibition data you cited in the Drake study so I guess serum it is. Yours was the right one.
And just to add to the stack here's another graph worth mentioning:
After a single dose of finasteride, your serum DHT plummet for the subsequent two days. From day 3 it starts to bounce back. Finasteride is an irreversible 5AR inhibitor, meaning once it bonds to a 5AR the enzyme can not be utilized anymore, so the body takes time to replenish. That justifies the EOD intake by a lot of users. It's just that on lower doses it's harder and slower to reach a steady DHT inhibition.
We should keep the collection going and try opening a new summarizing thread at some point.
The graph I mentioned before was this one:
But I read the source link again today. It never pointed out whether the graph was for serum or scalp DHT. It seems to match the serum DHT inhibition data you cited in the Drake study so I guess serum it is. Yours was the right one.
And just to add to the stack here's another graph worth mentioning:
After a single dose of finasteride, your serum DHT plummet for the subsequent two days. From day 3 it starts to bounce back. Finasteride is an irreversible 5AR inhibitor, meaning once it bonds to a 5AR the enzyme can not be utilized anymore, so the body takes time to replenish. That justifies the EOD intake by a lot of users. It's just that on lower doses it's harder and slower to reach a steady DHT inhibition.
How do u take it in doses below .25mg if I dont want to drink vodka everyday? That stuff aint helping your liver thats for sure. Also your liver has to process the finasteride and then the alcohol together.
Eh if I decide to start finasteride im going with .25mg but id go lower if I could reliably make it smaller but still get consistent doses without having to drink vodka or something other then water.
Eh if I decide to start finasteride im going with .25mg but id go lower if I could reliably make it smaller but still get consistent doses without having to drink vodka or something other then water.