Finasteride, Epilobium, DHT and Estradiol. The Four Amigos.

[So]

I've been having a discussion with a fellow on another hair loss forum about Finasteride, Epilobium, DHT and Estradiol. I am very curious to know whether or not the relationship between the aforementioned is important however I require the input of the more experienced researchers on this forum with in depth knowledge of Estradiol and DHT.

Read on,

As the story goes I have been taking Propecia for eight months and have intermittently employed the use of Epilobium (1000mg).

Epilobium by the way is a natural substance which is proposed to inhibit not only DHT but also Estradiol.

Recently, I have begun regular use of Epilobium in conjunction with Propecia as I was under the (researched) impression that Epilobium would help reduce DHT further.

However there is a BIG problem with this, apparently, as I've been told.

It has been suggested to me that by reducing DHT or too MUCH DHT alone, that we are increasing conversion to Estradiol further down the line (pathway).

Because Epilobium also reduces DHT along with Propecia, the fear so to speak is that too much inhibition of DHT is occurring spurring greater conversion to Estradiol.

By doing so, Estradiol is in fact causing harmful effects upon our hair.

The moral of the story is that not only should we be inhibiting DHT but also the same attention should be placed on Estradiol. This fellow further suggests in not so many words that Epilobium alone may be a better alternative in avoiding the costly effect of doubling on on DHT inhibition with Propecia use, with the added benefit of Epilobiunm inhibiting Estradiol.

If on one hand this is something we are over looking it could explain the lack luster results many users of DHT suppressing drugs/supplements get and a reason behind the loss of efficiency overtime.

Should this be a path in which we all should pursue? Or is this a fallacy of sorts?

 

[Bryan]

What makes you think that estrogen causes harmful effects on hair?

BTW, I don't think that there's so much as a shred of in vivo evidence that Epilobium has any effect on either DHT or estrogen.

Bryan

 

[So]

The only thing that makes me think as such is the fact that I have had no success on Propecia alone but again I am not educated no the subject of Estrogen and it's effect on hair if any, thus my question.

I am taking influence in all honesty from a member of another forum who is suggesting that the inhibition of DHT alone will only result in further downstream conversion to Estradiol, creating an imbalance that continues to fuel my loss.

Fortunately I do not take Epilobium as a Finasteride substitute.

I may take some Flaxseed Oil to see how this notion pans out.

 

[Bryan]

I am taking influence in all honesty from a member of another forum who is suggesting that the inhibition of DHT alone will only result in further downstream conversion to Estradiol, creating an imbalance that continues to fuel my loss.

Most of the available evidence shows that estrogen is actually protective for scalp hair.

Bryan

 

[stax]

I dont know about the whole estrogen thing, but i doubt it protects your hair all that much, and i dont know if it hurts it either but if your a man it certainly hurts your body if you have a higher estrogen to androgen ratio ( which finasteride/dutasteride usally causes ).


Ive been using dutasteride every day, an aromatize inhibitor called AIMF, Spectral DNC, and Proxiphen, and my hairloss is fully reversing including my hairline. Ive been on and off various treatments ( propecia, minoxidil, proxiphen ) but this regimen is by far the best and has the quickest results.


My testosterone is high and DHT/Estrogen is low, and my results are looking like the best ever. I also get more pumped and jacked when doing phyical work, my forarms have gained some mass, and im a bit more vascular.


The only damn problem im having is getting stupid water retention in my face from either the dutasteride/minoxidil, or a combination of both. Im fighting to find a solution because i simply cant tolerate the bloated face it makes me look ugly and would degrade anybodies good looks.



But i think that if you have high estrogen levels your DHT levels increase to try to protect your body from the harmful effects of exess estrogen. ive read this a few different places and Immortal Hair says this too based on his research. I dont think if you put hair follicles and pure estrogen together that it would degrade the hair follicle. I could be wrong men are VERY different from woman and the way our bodies work! VERY different!


I think the safest thing is to have normal or higher testosterone levels, and lower estrogen and dht levels, but not too low just lower end on the scale. I see only benifits to this if you can do it right which is very hard.

 

[Bryan]

I dont know about the whole estrogen thing, but i doubt it protects your hair all that much...

I agree with you. I don't think it's a majorly protective effect, just a modest one.

But i think that if you have high estrogen levels your DHT levels increase to try to protect your body from the harmful effects of exess estrogen. ive read this a few different places and Immortal Hair says this too based on his research.

I think that's nothing but pure speculation. I've never heard of the slightest bit of evidence that there is any kind of regulatory mechanism between estrogen and DHT like you describe above.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

thank god we have bryan around to debunk the bullshit. it really gets old sometimes. :roll: