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finasteride And dutasteride Have Made My Hair Worse By Increasing Test

Discussion in 'Shedding Shedding Shedding' started by nono, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. nono

    nono New Member

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    I have been on finasteride for 3 years and finasteride + dutasteride for 6 months. My side effects are unusual - increased body hair, libido etc. My hair loss has continued to progress rapidly. I'm starting to think this is due to the Testosterone boost 5ARs give, as detailed here https://player.fm/series/more-plate...oss-prevention-hair-loss-experiment-follow-up.

    I was hoping you guys could help me answer a couple of questions.
    is there any way of blocking T locally?
    should I quit 5ARs?

    Thanks
     
  2. Gregor59

    Gregor59 Established Member My Regimen

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    I wonder same thing.bump
     
  3. Michael1986

    Michael1986 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    There's no point taking finasteride if you are also using dutasteride. Dutasteride does everything finasteride does and more, and taking finasteride alongside it will not result in any extra hair gains.

    In your case, you probably just have extremely aggressive hair loss anyway. The dutasteride you are taking is sure to be slowing down your hair loss, but unfortunately it is not strong enough to put a complete halt to your own hair loss. It would seem to me to be highly improbable that finasteride and dutasteride can actually make a person's hair loss worse than it would have been if they had never treated their hair loss to begin with. That belief just doesn't add up, and it has not been shown to be true in any study.

    The reason why your hair loss is continuing despite using dutasteride is likely due largely to the small amount of DHT leftover that the dutasteride is not inhibiting, and as you say, also due to the presence of the much weaker androgen testosterone, which dutasteride has the effect of raising slightly.

    You could consider adding a low dose of oral minoxidil to your regimen, and also the topical antiandrogen CB-03-01, which helps by locally reducing the effect of both DHT and testosterone on your hair follicles. Use these in addition to dutasteride though, and not instead of dutasteride.
     
  4. OldnBald

    OldnBald Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Hey somebody who makes sense on this crazy site. Plus 1
     
    Michael1986 likes this.
  5. AllerganSaveUs

    AllerganSaveUs Established Member My Regimen

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    Actually, dutasteride in combination with finasteride can perform better than dutasteride alone. Some doctors use this combination in their patients and some people report the strong benefit of combining these two drugs https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22686691
    As for your issue, I would get a blood test to see what your DHT level is while on these drugs to make sure they are working properly. I would start using topical or oral minoxidil along with RU58841 or CB0301. Also consider using caffeine topical or/and shampoo as well as supplementing with all essential vitamins and minerals, especially vitamin D, zinc, and copper. RU58841, CB0301, and topical caffeine will help remove testosterone from your scalp.
     
  6. Michael1986

    Michael1986 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    That study shows that adding dutasteride to finasteride is more effective than finasteride by itself. I'm not aware of any studies that show that finasteride+dutasteride together is more effective than using dutasteride alone. My understanding of the way that 5ar inhibitors work is that if you are taking the two together, they do not work synergistically, but rather, the effect of the more powerful one will override the effect of the weaker one.
     
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  7. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member

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    DHT is far more potent that testosterone. The damage done by increasing T cannot surpass the benefit of eliminating DHT.
     
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  8. Michael1986

    Michael1986 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Yes indeed. I would say that testosterone plays a very small role in hair loss, but DHT plays a much, much bigger role (probably around 95% responsible), as shown by the fact that finasteride and dutasteride are effective for the overwhelming majority of men, and also by the fact that men who have congenital 5-alpha reductase type 2 deficiency are known to never lose any of their hair. These men have normal levels of all hormones other than DHT.
     
  9. Ikarus

    Ikarus Senior Member My Regimen

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    How come there isn't a is single person on 5AR inhibitors who have had permanent results, if that's the case? However, it's a different story for castrated men and transgender women.
     
  10. Ikarus

    Ikarus Senior Member My Regimen

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    I find it interesting, because women are generally less responsive to 5AR inhibitors and are given spironolactone, cyproterone acetate and flutamide instead and have superior results. On many medical websites, that's because of an androgen sensitivity, but why can't that be applied to males?

    Along with that, there isn't a single case of someone having permanent results with 5AR inhibitors, in fact the results are significantly more likely to fall stagnant rather than last permanently. However, it's a different story for castrated men; they do not lose hair whatsoever. And, there's actual proof of this, with an example being Alessandro Moreschi who was a castrato singer during the late 1800s. He entirely kept his juvenile hairline, and that can be seen online. Along with that example, there are the many other cases of those on ADT who permanently freeze hair loss from persisting. However, it's not the same case with those on 5AR inhibitors, in which some people don't even respond to 5AR inhibitors, but instead respond to ADT. Testosterone does play a large role in hair loss, but people deny this just because of their current progress with 5AR inhibitors and because of the 'knowledge' that males who have a deficiency in 5AR don't go bald, even though we can't prove that since we know of zero people with such a condition.
     
  11. Michael1986

    Michael1986 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    I think that finasteride and especially dutasteride most likely can stop hair loss for a lifetime for some individuals. Dutasteride only came out in 2001, if I recall correctly, so people haven't been using it for long enough to be able to put it to the test over a lifetime of usage. But time will tell, no doubt. I've been using dutasteride for over five years so far, and it has stopped my hair loss dead in its tracks and given me a significant amount of regrowth. I seem to remember a guy posting a success story on this forum who had been using finasteride for over 20 years, and it had put a complete halt to his hair loss over all those years. I'll try and dig up the thread when I get a chance.

    There have been a large number of males with congenital 5-ar type 2 deficiency who have been studied, in different populations from places such as the Dominican Republic, Turkey, and Papua New Guinea. None of these males have ever been found to suffer from male pattern baldness. The evidence is clear that men with this condition do not lose their hair.
     
  12. Ikarus

    Ikarus Senior Member My Regimen

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    But, you are not a male with that condition. They also have a significant lack in sexual development, do you have that? You can’t compare someone with a born condition to someone who is attempting to imitate the condition after the ages of eighteen. In fact, people under twenty with severe hair loss do not even respond to 5AR inhibitors.

    You have been on [D] for five years, that’s not fifty. It’s been out for that long, but we are talking about its permanent efficacy, which it most likely doesn’t have. It’s the same with [F], where it won’t be permanent. But, we will see whose right.
     
  13. Derelict

    Derelict Senior Member My Regimen

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    You hear from a lot of people on here that dutasteride alone didn't halt their hair loss completely, i think to be on the safe side bica,spironolactone or CPA should be used on conjunction with dutasteride. I think you are guaranteed to get maintenance on either of these combinations, if you are lucky you will get regrowth but i think to make sure you get significant regrowth estradiol is needed. I have seen some fantastic HRT level results from people just using finasteride itself but how long they can maintain is an open question. This is a good example of a great responder to finasteride https://www.hairlossexperiences.com/threads/true-dorin-transplant-or-propecia.1893/

    Unfortunately that's nowhere near the norm for most people.
     
    #13 Derelict, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  14. Michael1986

    Michael1986 Experienced Member My Regimen

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    I agree that the HRT route has an even higher chance than finasteride/dutasteride of achieving long-lasting results, though I still stand by my opinion that for some guys, finasteride and especially dutasteride can stop hair loss permanently. Most people would not doubt the effectiveness of the HRT route in terms of growing hair, but in reality, it is not a viable route to go down for most male pattern baldness sufferers due to the risks to their health and masculinity that are associated with it.
     
    #14 Michael1986, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  15. Charley farley

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  16. Charley farley

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    I used propecia twenty years stopped hairloss.aprt from my right temple .like a.fool I tried regaine foam ..I came of the foam. Due to side affects now my hair is a.log thinner ..this rely has pissed me of the side affects of regaine are bad news ..eye bags lines ..very bad migranes ..
     
  17. MKP05

    MKP05 Established Member My Regimen

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    Do you mean oral or topical spironolactone. I don’t think I’d take oral due to the possible side effects. I have read that topical spironolactone may not have the same sides but does it work?
     
  18. Derelict

    Derelict Senior Member My Regimen

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    I was talking abour oral spironolactone, topical spironolactone is pretty much useless.
     
  19. MKP05

    MKP05 Established Member My Regimen

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    Ok. That’s what I thought. Aren’t there some pretty severe potential side effects from oral spironactone?
     
  20. MKP05

    MKP05 Established Member My Regimen

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    I’ve been seeing a lot of your posts recently and you seem to make pretty logical points. So my duta is on it’s way from Murray ave apothecary. I’ll admit that I’m very nervous about switching from finasteride. My hair loss was not too severe when I started treatment. 4-6 months after starting finasteride I lost density everywhere. I never saw a massive shed. Just that the root of my hairs became thinner and tapered. And this happened across my scalp and not just where I was receding. I’m still at a total loss to explain what happened but my hair is noticeably thinner and much more receded than it was 17 months ago. I’ve gone from no noticeable hair loss to “that guy“ who is definitely balding and trying to hang on. It’s happened so rapidly that I’m sure friends and family are in disbelief- although no one has come out and said it. Anyway how concerned should I be that duta is going to make me regress even further? Will my T level rise again or should it remain level since I’m already on finasteride?
     
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