Fgf9 and wounding

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Am I Too Pate

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I wouldn't say this old news; more news in progress. That said, there's not a lot to add to the discussion until we get the next update. Problem is that Follica, the US based company that's licensed the research, are keeping their cards close to their chest. And why wouldn't they? They're in it first and foremost to make money, not help guys with hair anxiety (although the two do go together rather nicely). As for a link to cancer. I'd love to hear your source for that one. Didn't find anything when I was trawling through the web looking for news on fgf9 and the scalp wounding procedure.
 
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peacemaker

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After reading Cotsarelis' latest article (http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2013/12/millar/), I thought this thread's title should have been "Fgf9, DKK1 inhibition and wounding". DKK1's are the proteins that produce the unwanted PGD2s that are responsible for the inhibition of hair growth and balding. In this study, "When Dkk1 was removed, the Wnt/β-catenin pathway resumed normal function, the stem cells were activated, and hair growth was restored". "DKK1 is a secreted protein with two cysteine rich regions and is involved in embryonic development through its inhibition of the WNT signaling pathway."

So, I believe that Cotsarelis is planning to attack the hairloss problem from two fronts:
1- Wounding with exogenous growth factors (Like Fgf9) to promote the activation of the Wnt pathway.
2- DKK1 inhibitors that lower PGD2 production to prevent hair growth inhibition and further promote the activation of the Wnt pathway.

If there is no other unknown inhibitor or a feedback system that makes the hair loss issue more complicated, I believe this could be a potent hair growth treatment as we are both getting rid of the inhibitors from upstream and promoting the stem cells to grow new hairs through the wnt pathway.

However, sadly, I think that it will take a while for researchers to find the right drug for hair loss treatment as these developments are really recent. I don't think that they know a lot about the amount of growth factors etc that they should use or the possible health risks. Does anyone know if there is any extensive research done on FGF9 or DKK1 inhibitors? If not, it will take a while for scientists to figure out the safety profiles for these molecules.

From these articles, I really would think the dosage of the treatment would depend on the PGD2 production on your scalp. If you are balding very slowly, you might get away with just derma rolling or derma rolling + some growth factors. If you are balding heavily or are bald already, you might need an addition of a DKK1 inhibitor to reduce the effects of the high PGD2 production.

I still do not know the role of Minoxidil in this and actually I do not care. My treatment currently involves just scratching and massaging. Later on, I will add a DR and if that also doesn't solve my issue, I will consider adding a growth factor.
 
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peacemaker

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All the sources that I have read implied that DKK1 proteins were the upstream of hair growth inhibition. Moreover, PGD2's are the reasons for inhibition. Hence, although there doesn't seem to be a direct link shown anywhere, I would say that DKK1 causes PGD2. Moreover, if you search the web, there are a LOT of charts on hair loss sites that make the connection that I made, so I bet that it is a safe assumption. However, as I said before, don't take my word for it 100% as I am no dermatologist.
 
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shivers20

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First time reading that laser ablation by itself increases FGF-9
In HUMAN skin. Sorry if repost.


Abstract
Fibroblast growth factor (FGF) 9 is secreted by both mesothelial and epithelial cells, and plays important roles in organ development and wound healing via WNT/β-catenin signaling. The aim of this study was to evaluate FGF9 expression and FGF-WNT/β-catenin signaling during wound healing of the skin. We investigated FGF9 expression and FGF-WNT/β-catenin signaling after laser ablation of mouse skin and adult human skin, as well as in cultured normal human epidermal keratinocytes (NHEKs) upon stimulation with recombinant human (rh) FGF9 and rh-transforming growth factor (TGF)-β1. Our results demonstrated that laser ablation of both mouse skin and human skin leads to marked overexpression of FGF9 and FGF9 mRNA. Control NHEKs constitutively expressed FGF9, WNT7b, WNT2, and β-catenin, but did not show Snail or FGFR2 expression. We also found that FGF receptor (FGFR) 2 was significantly induced in NHEKs by rhFGF9 stimulation, and observed that FGFR2 expression was slightly upregulated on particular days during the wound healing process after ablative laser therapy. Both WNT7b and WNT2 showed upregulated protein expression during the laser-induced wound healing process in mouse skin; moreover, we discerned that the stimulatory effect of rhFGF9 and rhTGF-β1 activates WNT/β-catenin signaling via WNT7b in cultured NHEKs. Our data indicated that rhFGF9 and/or rhTGF-β1 upregulate FGFR2, WNT7b, and β-catenin, but not FGF9 and Snail; pretreatment with rh dickkopf-1 significantly inhibited the upregulation of FGFR2, WNT7b, and β-catenin. Our results suggested that FGF9 and FGF-WNT/β-catenin signaling may play important roles in ablative laser-induced wound healing processes.
 
hellouser

hellouser

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shivers20 said:
First time reading that laser ablation by itself increases FGF-9
In HUMAN skin. Sorry if repost.


Abstract
Fibroblast growth factor (FGF) 9 is secreted by both mesothelial and epithelial cells, and plays important roles in organ development and wound healing via WNT/β-catenin signaling. The aim of this study was to evaluate FGF9 expression and FGF-WNT/β-catenin signaling during wound healing of the skin. We investigated FGF9 expression and FGF-WNT/β-catenin signaling after laser ablation of mouse skin and adult human skin, as well as in cultured normal human epidermal keratinocytes (NHEKs) upon stimulation with recombinant human (rh) FGF9 and rh-transforming growth factor (TGF)-β1. Our results demonstrated that laser ablation of both mouse skin and human skin leads to marked overexpression of FGF9 and FGF9 mRNA. Control NHEKs constitutively expressed FGF9, WNT7b, WNT2, and β-catenin, but did not show Snail or FGFR2 expression. We also found that FGF receptor (FGFR) 2 was significantly induced in NHEKs by rhFGF9 stimulation, and observed that FGFR2 expression was slightly upregulated on particular days during the wound healing process after ablative laser therapy. Both WNT7b and WNT2 showed upregulated protein expression during the laser-induced wound healing process in mouse skin; moreover, we discerned that the stimulatory effect of rhFGF9 and rhTGF-β1 activates WNT/β-catenin signaling via WNT7b in cultured NHEKs. Our data indicated that rhFGF9 and/or rhTGF-β1 upregulate FGFR2, WNT7b, and β-catenin, but not FGF9 and Snail; pretreatment with rh dickkopf-1 significantly inhibited the upregulation of FGFR2, WNT7b, and β-catenin. Our results suggested that FGF9 and FGF-WNT/β-catenin signaling may play important roles in ablative laser-induced wound healing processes.
Click to expand...

Source??
 
HairCook

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So what we need to do after Wounding seems to be wnt (b12?), dkk1 (vitc/l-threonate) and a fgf9 agonist. So what do we have for fgf9 guys? Come on, so many smart people in this forum and no solution? Laser sounds honestly a bit weak ;(
 
HairCook

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Well, PGE2viaEP3 (castor oil lmao) seems to activate FGF9, if castor just would penetrate. Maybe actually taking a massive sh*t with castor oil orally might do the trick after wounding with topical wnt activator? lmao

http://mcb.asm.org/content/26/22/8281.full
 
HairCook

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HairCook

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Trichosan said:
Same here. Unfortunately, they can't ship to USA.
Click to expand...

Even in the link I posted above you?
International shipping is availabe there, but didnt check if there are exception. I guess it is a reseller.
 
Trichosan

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HairCook said:
Even in the link I posted above you?
International shipping is availabe there, but didnt check if there are exception. I guess it is a reseller.
Click to expand...

I spoke with PnP Biopharma, the makers of Cellcurin. They market a product, PnP G9, as similar to Cellcurin but it is a cosmetic product without the numerous growth factors in Cellcurin. G9 is what they try to sell where they can't export Cellcurin. Grace Yoo, in charge of international marketing confirmed this in an email with me yesterday-they can not ship to USA due to FDA restrictions. Another member on this forum, in Europe, did receive Cellcurin.
Finally, I am not convinced that the Cellcurin they retail is identical to the research product despite the name listed as on research paper.
 
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HairCook

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FDA at its best... Cause of shittie institutions people are buying from kane and other questionable sources, gosh upsets me really every time anew...
 
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