Estrogen receptor Beta (ER β): grow hair and muscle?

[DavidsDome]

As already proven: ER α is bad for our hair and thus is ER β good.

Hair cycle control by estrogens: catagen induction via estrogen receptor (ER)-alpha is checked by ER beta signaling

Hair cycle control by estrogens: catagen induction via estrogen receptor (ER)-alpha is checked by ER beta signaling - PubMed

Although 17beta-estradiol (E2) is recognized as a potent hair growth modulator, our knowledge of estrogen function, signaling, and target genes in hair biology is still very limited. Between the two recognized estrogen receptors (ERs), ER alpha and ER beta, only ER alpha had been detected in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/how-different-types-of-estrogen-promote-and-hinder-hair-growth.113077/

Then I came across these two studies about muscle growth by ER β activation:

Selective estrogen receptor-β activation stimulates skeletal muscle growth and regeneration

Selective estrogen receptor-β activation stimulates skeletal muscle growth and regeneration - PubMed

There is increasing evidence suggesting that estrogens augment skeletal muscle regeneration processes after injury. To study the contribution of estrogen receptors α and β (ERα and ERβ) during muscle regeneration, skeletal muscles of ovariectomized (OVX) rats, as well as ERα- and ERβ-knockout...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estrogen receptor beta is involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy induced by the phytoecdysteroid ecdysterone

Estrogen receptor beta is involved in skeletal muscle hypertrophy induced by the phytoecdysteroid ecdysterone - PubMed

These findings provide new therapeutic perspectives for the treatment of muscle injuries, sarcopenia, and cachectic disease, but also imply that such a substance could be abused for doping purposes.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So in stead of using an ER β agonist as a topical, why not use it oral and grow some muscle as well?

Yes the only thing I can think is... This sounds too good to be true... So probably it is.
Surely there must be some kind of unwanted side effects when we raise our ER β systemically?
Anybody any idea?
I ordered some ecdysterone, so I'm gonna give this a shot purely for the possible muscle growth effect.
Ecdysterone is a bit controversial though. Some studies claim it works, at least one is saying it doesnt work. But that shouldnt matter too much in this discussion.
I wonder if every ER β agonist will have an effect on muscle growth. Because there are very selective ER β agonists around. Why not take them oral?
Curious to hear if somebody else has some more info / opinions on this topic.

 

[inmyhead]

Doesn't ir promote body hair?

 

[DavidsDome]

I ve never heard of er beta leading to more body hair to be honest...

 

[inmyhead]

I ve never heard of er beta leading to more body hair to be honest...

I'm talking about ecdysterone specifically

 

[DavidsDome]

It has no androgenic effect so i would say that it doesnt promotie more body hair...
The only known effect is through er beta signaling. That of course doesn't mean that it doesn't have other mechanisms of action.

 

[Johnson40]

Side effects of old time treatment: Brain fog, ball ache, ED and gyno
Side effects of 2020s treatment: Enhanced muscle growth, Higher libido, Better skin, Longer REM sleep, Reduced anxiety

Isn't the future promising boyos?
Though i'd advise against taking orally poorly studied substance, especially if you're not on peak physical heath and have underlying conditions.

 

[trialAcc]

This is what WAY is, 67x more selective for ERb then ERa. Check the group buy thread.

 

[DavidsDome]

Yes im aware of WAY.
Hence my interest.
What would happen if we take WAY orally?
Because they are all using it tropical i believe?
In general, oral works better. But of course will it do its thing all over the body.
But if it also improves muscle repair, then that would be great.
Receptor B agonists are also linked with anti inflammatory effects and anti depressant.
So far it just sound like estrogen B agonists are fine, even oral...

 

[trialAcc]

Yes im aware of WAY.
Hence my interest.
What would happen if we take WAY orally?
Because they are all using it tropical i believe?
In general, oral works better. But of course will it do its thing all over the body.
But if it also improves muscle repair, then that would be great.
Receptor B agonists are also linked with anti inflammatory effects and anti depressant.
So far it just sound like estrogen B agonists are fine, even oral...

Not sure, no one has tried oral.

 

[DavidsDome]

Found this regarding another selective ER beta agonist given orally to healthy men:

LY500307 is a highly selective estrogen receptor β (ERβ) agonist, which loses its selectivity at high dose and leads to undesirable suppression of total testosterone (TT) concentration

Population pharmacokinetic/pharmacodynamic assessment of pharmacological effect of a selective estrogen receptor β agonist on total testosterone in healthy men - PubMed

Population PK/PD modeling is a highly sensitive tool to detect exposure-response relationships on top of the complicated and highly variable circadian rhythm of TT.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not sure if this applies to all selective ER beta agonists of course.
But for those who would like to try oral ER beta agonists, you might want check if the selectivity of the substance used is guaranteed at the taken dose.

On the other hand, ER beta is not associated with feminizing effects in men:
The effects of estrogen are mediated through two estrogen receptors –ER-alpha (ERα) and ER-beta (ERβ)which was discovered in 1996(21-23).ERα is the primary receptor for estrogen’s effects in reproductive systems. Unlike ERα, ERβ is essentially absent from adult pituitary and endometrium so agonists for this receptor subtype would not be associated with risks for chemical castration, feminization effects in men...

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ProvidedDocs/56/NCT01874756/Prot_SAP_000.pdf

 

[DavidsDome]

warning on kidney health regarding ecdysterone use:
In summary, our study demonstrated that ecdysone treatment seems sufficient to cause albuminuria and glomerular injury in murine models. This harmful effect is likely accounted for by a mineralocorticoid-like activity of ecdysone that is able to activate MR in glomerular cells and trigger cytopathic changes, and can be abolished by the MR blockade spironolactone. Our findings suggest that the use of ecdysone, a popular anabolic and adaptogenic agent, may be problematic, at least for kidney health and thus warrants extra precautions.

Activation of mineralocorticoid receptor by ecdysone, an adaptogenic and anabolic ecdysteroid, promotes glomerular injury and proteinuria involving overactive GSK3β pathway signaling

Ecdysone is an arthropod molting hormone and has been marketed as a non-androgenic natural anabolic and adaptogen. However, the safety profile of ecdysone is largely undetermined. After ecdysone treatment for 2 weeks, mice developed albuminuria with histologic ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov