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There's a 24 month study that compared finasteride to saw palmetto.
Both increased hair at the vertex, but only finasteride increased hair at the hairline.
Effect Of Finastride On Temporal Recession
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There's a 24 month study that compared finasteride to saw palmetto.
Both increased hair at the vertex, but only finasteride increased hair at the hairline.
cyrusthegreat@hotmail.com
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Hey,
See
http://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(06)01287-4/abstract
http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/resources/hair-restoration-papers/dutasteride-vs-finasteride/
http://www.regrowth.com/remedies/phase-ii-fda-hair-loss-study-results-for-avodart-dutasteride/
5ar type 1 creates the exact same DHT that 5ar type 2 creates. Here's a snippet on 5-alpha-reductase deficiency from wikipedia (see references to sources in the article @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase#Congenital_deficiencies:
In 5 alpha reductase type 2 deficient males, the type 1 isoenzyme is thought to be responsible for their virilization at puberty.[6]
In type 2 deficient males, who "were born with feminine genitalia in the absence of endogenous DHT during pregnancy," the surge of T at puberty and it's subsequent reduction via 5ar type 1 to DHT is responsible for their virilization. I'm aware of the cases of 5ar type 2 deficient males not experiencing hair loss, but i haven't read up in detail. From what i understand, this condition is exceedingly rare and only occurs in very small, specific sub ethnicities of people. I would guess that these people with the 5ar type 2 mutation, probably have other androgen related issues, like lower 5ar type 1 perhaps. Still, these very same people who seemingly don't experience male pattern baldness, DO begin to lose hair when administered exogenous T. That loss is thought to be due to 5ar type 1 T->DHT conversion.
Furthermore, 5ar type 2 is thought to be more prominent in prostate, while 5ar type 1 is more prominent in skin and sebaceous glands (scalp).
@cyrusthegreat@hotmail.com,
I am already aware of the studies that you've shared with me. The links you provided do nothing to prove that type 2 deficient males lose hair when administered exogenous T. Where did you see this? I have never seen this and do not think it is true.
Every single doctor/dermatologist and source on the internet says that 5AR Type 2 is responsible for hair loss. My question for you is are you pulling this theory of type 1 causing hair loss out of your ***?
I am already aware of the studies that you've shared with me. The links you provided do nothing to prove that type 2 deficient males lose hair when administered exogenous T. Where did you see this? I have never seen this and do not think it is true.
Every single doctor/dermatologist and source on the internet says that 5AR Type 2 is responsible for hair loss. My question for you is are you pulling this theory of type 1 causing hair loss out of your ***?
A lot of this is very open to debate. I dont think you can rule out T by itself as contributing to some amount to male pattern baldness maybe more so at the temples front if its more sensitive. It could also be the type 1 enzyme plays a larger role in some people then others. We can only guess because no one knows for sure.
If no one knows how male pattern baldness works like how DHT actually causes male pattern baldness and why hair ever becomes to sensitive to DHT in the first place how can they say for 100 percent absolute certainty that its soley the 5-ar type 2 enzyme?
You cant.
If no one knows how male pattern baldness works like how DHT actually causes male pattern baldness and why hair ever becomes to sensitive to DHT in the first place how can they say for 100 percent absolute certainty that its soley the 5-ar type 2 enzyme?
You cant.
No, I do not see this as open to debate. Very smart doctors and medical researchers came up with factual information and you guys are literally making stuff up that goes against their findings.
Quote from another website:
"Several years ago, Merck developed a drug they call "MK386". It's a specific 5a-reductase type 1 inhibitor, and I mean it's very specific for type 1. It's even more specific for type 1 than finasteride is specific for type 2! It's still just an experimental drug, though. It's never been approved by the FDA for anything, although it was tested a few years ago (unsuccessfully) as a possible treatment for acne.
Some researchers did a study with MK386 in balding stumptailed macaques, which I've mentioned several times. They found that after a year or two of treatment, hairweights in the animals getting the drug and hairweights in the animals getting the placebo were "similar".
A little-known test by Merck of balding humans getting MK386 showed similar insignificant results.
An early published study by Merck (you can find the abstract on PubMed, and I recommend reading it -- it's very interesting) tested human volunteers who took BOTH finasteride and MK386 simultaneously. The effect on their blood serum DHT was _quite_ similar to what would be obtained later with dutasteride!"
Quote from another website:
"Several years ago, Merck developed a drug they call "MK386". It's a specific 5a-reductase type 1 inhibitor, and I mean it's very specific for type 1. It's even more specific for type 1 than finasteride is specific for type 2! It's still just an experimental drug, though. It's never been approved by the FDA for anything, although it was tested a few years ago (unsuccessfully) as a possible treatment for acne.
Some researchers did a study with MK386 in balding stumptailed macaques, which I've mentioned several times. They found that after a year or two of treatment, hairweights in the animals getting the drug and hairweights in the animals getting the placebo were "similar".
A little-known test by Merck of balding humans getting MK386 showed similar insignificant results.
An early published study by Merck (you can find the abstract on PubMed, and I recommend reading it -- it's very interesting) tested human volunteers who took BOTH finasteride and MK386 simultaneously. The effect on their blood serum DHT was _quite_ similar to what would be obtained later with dutasteride!"
cyrusthegreat@hotmail.com
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@jetlife1
See the third paragraph in http://www.regrowth.com/remedies/phase-ii-fda-hair-loss-study-results-for-avodart-dutasteride/
No. The theory is credited to Rittmaster RS, a researcher involved in multiple dutasteride studies on prostate and hair loss.
No one is questioning the role of 5ar type 2 in hair loss. Rittmaster made the argument that both 5ar enzymes may play a role
given his conclusions.
Expanding on that conclusion, i'm trying to make sense of multiple reports of accelerated or new hair loss after prolonged finasteride use
by many online (without recovery), including myself. My experience with 18 months of daily Propecia has resulted in dramatic loss in areas I had never experienced thinning in without recovery. I'm not saying it's definitely the idea outlined above, but I do find it plausible. After all, DHT is DHT whether it's reduced by type 1 or type 2 5ar. And if 5ar type 1 is thought to be more prominent in the scalp, then it stands to reason that increased systemic T due to finasteride action could result in increased DHT production and action local to the hair follicle.
Given the argument above, inhibiting 5ar type 1 alone should not be sufficient in curbing male pattern baldness, and as you pointed out it isn't. I'm beginning to think that inhibiting 5ar type 2 alone isn't sufficient either, at least in my case and perhaps in others.
See the third paragraph in http://www.regrowth.com/remedies/phase-ii-fda-hair-loss-study-results-for-avodart-dutasteride/
No. The theory is credited to Rittmaster RS, a researcher involved in multiple dutasteride studies on prostate and hair loss.
No one is questioning the role of 5ar type 2 in hair loss. Rittmaster made the argument that both 5ar enzymes may play a role
given his conclusions.
Expanding on that conclusion, i'm trying to make sense of multiple reports of accelerated or new hair loss after prolonged finasteride use
by many online (without recovery), including myself. My experience with 18 months of daily Propecia has resulted in dramatic loss in areas I had never experienced thinning in without recovery. I'm not saying it's definitely the idea outlined above, but I do find it plausible. After all, DHT is DHT whether it's reduced by type 1 or type 2 5ar. And if 5ar type 1 is thought to be more prominent in the scalp, then it stands to reason that increased systemic T due to finasteride action could result in increased DHT production and action local to the hair follicle.
Given the argument above, inhibiting 5ar type 1 alone should not be sufficient in curbing male pattern baldness, and as you pointed out it isn't. I'm beginning to think that inhibiting 5ar type 2 alone isn't sufficient either, at least in my case and perhaps in others.
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If you can maintain your crown and mid section then your hair transplant prospects will be much, much better.