DWAT: Dermal White Adipose Tissue Hypothesis

Isneezedsohard

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That's how Castor oil/ricin probably modulates to DWAT, making it better
(i continue to try to support the hypothesis and to find links between remedies, dwat and hair loss/regrowth):
"Ricinus communis extract inhibits the adipocyte differentiation through activating the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway."

- how you administer topical castor oil? dosage/vehicle? dmso? or something else?
- what if apply Ceti with castor oil at once (propylene glycol/aloe vera and a little ethanol as a vehicle)?
- how about to add bimat/bimatoprots/latanopros/pgf2 (topically for sure) too?
why not just micro dose orally?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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why not just micro dose orally?
Both ways are said to work. I tried topically once and it is very difficult to wash out unless you take a bath, very similar to PS80 in the olden days or even nowadays, lol. If you exceed dosage, then watch out! Luckily we all stay home now but you can have explosive blow outs when you think you are only passing gas. The first day I took 30mg lol which is about ten times too much!
 

StayPositive

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That's how Castor oil/ricin probably modulates to DWAT, making it better
(i continue to try to support the hypothesis and to find links between remedies, dwat and hair loss/regrowth):
"Ricinus communis extract inhibits the adipocyte differentiation through activating the Wnt/β-catenin signaling pathway."

- how you administer topical castor oil? dosage/vehicle? dmso? or something else?
- what if apply Ceti with castor oil at once (propylene glycol/aloe vera and a little ethanol as a vehicle)?
- how about to add bimat/bimatoprots/latanopros/pgf2 (topically for sure) too?
Castor oil is a pge2 agonist (on EP3 and EP4 receptors). We know pge2 increase Wnt/β-catenin, so it's not surprising castor oil does the same thing. Ricinoleic acid is also a weak pgd2 inhibitor

Topical castor oil is a nightmare, why not taking it oralyl?

Adding pgf2 is useless because pge2 analogs upregulate it .
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I am using it because friends on my thread recommended it and I review products from time to time but I mean, HRT grows hair so I am not expecting much, just some increase in manageability or maybe faster growth or longer anagen. It costs about a nickel a day like oral minoxidil.
 

Ticken

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Because they are trying with the wrong meds. Seti and Cetirizine are too weak. cetirizine only inhibits 45% of pgd2 for example. Remember, pgd2 level is 11 times higher in balding scalp than normal scalp, so if you reduce pgd2 by 50%, you still have around 5-6 times more pgd2 in your scalp than non-balding guys.

Aspirin is key imo, it decreases pgd2 by 86% at only 325mg (taken orally) and the effects last 24 hours. Imagine what 1000 - 1500mg Aspirin will do on pgd2 levels..

The problem is that Aspirin reduces pge2 as well, so you have to take pge2 analogs to replace the loss. Minoxidil cannot be taken with aspirin, since aspirin inhibits an enzyme necessary for proper minoxidil functioning . So take oral castor oil instead, it will replace the pge2 activity necessary for hair.

Any thoughts on how many mg/ml of Oral Castor Oil might be enough to increase or normalize the pge2 activity that was reduced by 325mg aspirin?
 

StayPositive

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Any thoughts on how many mg/ml of Oral Castor Oil might be enough to increase or normalize the pge2 activity that was reduced by 325mg aspirin?
Honestly I don't know, but i suggest 2-5ml per day. More than that and you will have bowel problems

Right now I am taking 3ml oral castor oil with 1000mg aspirin. I think i will reduce the aspirin dosage later, 500mg seems powerful enough
 

balda

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WAY-316606 was mentioned in the article from above: "Dermal adipose tissue secretes HGF to promote human hair growth and pigmentation". It says: "Similar long-term effects upon HF proliferation and pigmentation are seen after scalp HF treatment with SFRP1 antagonist WAY-316606."

has anyone experimented with WAY-316606?

ps. not sure, it could be a critical component of any regimen, as it looks like a growth "booster". it has nothing with reversion/prevention of inflammation/fibrosis damages.
 
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FluxZ

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WAY-316606 was mentioned in the article from above: "Dermal adipose tissue secretes HGF to promote human hair growth and pigmentation". It says: "Similar long-term effects upon HF proliferation and pigmentation are seen after scalp HF treatment with SFRP1 antagonist WAY-316606."

has anyone experimented with WAY-316606?

ps. not sure, it could be a critical component of any regimen, as it looks like a growth "booster". it has nothing with reversion/prevention of inflammation/fibrosis damages.

4 months on way 0,5%, see absolutely nothing, but niacin seems to help a little in shedding and thickness, almost 1 month on it 500mg x day.
 

balda

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How would one counteract fibrosis of the scalp with current available sources?
Taurine, Copper peptides/GHK-CU, ALY688-SR and more

Would say, reverting fibrosis is the hardest part of the treatment.
Be sure to take inflammation/fibrosis preventing (like Cetirizine, Niacin and other anti-PGD2 remedies) and adipogenic (like Castor Oil and other pro PGE/PGF) stuff first.
 

balda

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Recently seen topical niacin/niacinamide. Haven't expected that it's so widespread. Mostly used to solve skin disorders and ageing issues. The prob is it's mostly available as niacinamide. The type of B3 vitamin that doesn't produce flush compare to niacin. That's bad. As the flush is the point.

Meanwhile, there are some products containing specifically niacin - Niacin/Liquide (10mg/1ml), Niacin/Powder (pure) and Niacin based creams (seems, at low concentration).

What's interesting is how easy to deliver niacin and what concentration could be optimal. For example, here is the "side" ingredients for Ordinamiry niacinamide/zinc product: "Water, Niacinamide, Pentylene Glycol, Zinc PCA, Tamarindus Indica Seed Gum, Xanthan Gum, Isoceteth-20, Ethoxydiglycol, Phenoxyethanol, Chlorphenesin." Which of them work as a vehicle? And could they be used a vehicle for niacin instead of niacinamide? Ideally, would be nice to force the company to produce similar product based on niacin too.
 

BigMac2020

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Hello, registered an account to provide my experience regarding long term cetirizine, niacin flush and aspirin. This may confirm / disconfirm the theory of this thread.

due to histamine intolerance, i took oral cetirizine everyday for over 14 years. 14 years ago i was NW1, now i am NW5. As you can see, it did nothing for my hair loss.

3 years ago i found out about niacin flush. Taking it every 2-3 days i was able to stop cetirizine altogether, something i couldnt miss a single dose before.

In terms of scalp itch, cetirizine did nothing. Niacin flush alleviated it by a good 70%. Stopped using the latter in early 2019, because i completely forgot it existed. (im forgetful)

Fast forward to 2019 July, i started taking 3x baby aspirin everyday and still do today. it was able to completely halt any scalp itch. The itch that accompanied with my hair loss for the last 14 years. It was amazing. I did not lose any more hair during this time. BUT never experienced any regrowth either.

During this time i could eat scalp-itch-inducing junk food like chocolate and pizza.

In regards to dandruff, i used to think it causes scalp itch and has a hand in hair loss, but aspirin never took the dandruff away, and i did not lose any more hair with them.

Lastly, theres as much scalp sebum 12 hours after shower as before. But again I did not lose any more hair because of it.

Wish I knew about aspirin 14 years ago.
 
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jan_miezda

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Hello, registered an account to provide my experience regarding long term cetirizine, niacin flush and aspirin. This may confirm / disconfirm the theory of this thread.

due to histamine intolerance, i took oral cetirizine everyday for over 14 years. 14 years ago i was NW1, now i am NW5. As you can see, it did nothing for my hair loss.

3 years ago i found out about niacin flush. Taking it every 2-3 days i was able to stop cetirizine altogether, something i couldnt miss a single dose before.

In terms of scalp itch, cetirizine did nothing. Niacin flush alleviated it by a good 70%. Stopped using the latter in early 2019, because i completely forgot it existed. (im forgetful)

Fast forward to 2019 July, i started taking 3x baby aspirin everyday and still do today. it was able to completely halt any scalp itch. The itch that accompanied with my hair loss for the last 14 years. It was amazing. I did not lose any more hair during this time. BUT never experienced any regrowth either.

During this time i could eat scalp-itch-inducing junk food like chocolate and pizza.

In regards to dandruff, i used to think it causes scalp itch and has a hand in hair loss, but aspirin never took the dandruff away, and i did not lose any more hair with them.

Lastly, theres as much scalp sebum 12 hours after shower as before. But again I did not lose any more hair because of it.

Wish I knew about aspirin 14 years ago.
I would be scared to take that much aspirin especially depending on other health conditions because it will cause blood thinning
 

altsequence

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a trillion dollar question ))
i even not sure that the vellus sprouting is a marker of real regrowth. just want to bring more attention to the point to investigate together.
Just a thought, and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been tested...But micro needling may produce the effects necessary to mature vellus hairs to terminal state.
 

balda

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More about topical B3/niacin.

I see two relatively easy and cheap solutions:
- to order ready to use any ready-to-use niacinamide-based lotion (like "Ordinary" one), adding niacin powder to it (there are legit vendors).
- to try any stuff with myristyl nicotinate. it's positioned as well penetrating and slow releasing niacin derivative. it's "flushable", but it does it so slow, that there is no visible effect. they say. hope, it's as potent as niacin. personally, seen no lotions with it, only creams :(

PS.
someone even mentioned niacin as a "kickstarter" of processes boosting hair growth in a patent (see the image). here is the full text: https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1027&context=nutrisci_patents
 

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balda

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Just a thought, and I'd be surprised if it hasn't been tested...But micro needling may produce the effects necessary to mature vellus hairs to terminal state.
looks like that, but not fully sure.
is there any scientific proofs?
 

balda

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A little more about myristyl nicotinate.

What's interesting, a research dedicated to "myristyl nicotinate"/Nia-114 points that it acts as niacin, just much more gradually. so myristyl nicotinate probably has the same "flushing" potential. as discussed, it's critical to take "flushable" B3. to remove PGD2 from hair follicles' environment and, as a result, inhibit hair damaging process.

from the research:
"Our lead drug candidate, Nia-114 is shown in Figure 2. Nia-114 is a "prodrug" of niacin that is generated by addition of a hydrophobic "tail" to the niacin molecule. This slows down the release of Nia-114 into the living layers of the epidermis. After release into the epidermis, Nia-114 is converted back to niacin, which exerts benefit to skin. The slow release of Nia-114 into skin solves the side effect problem of niacin as a therapeutic drug by preventing the skin flushing side effects associated with free niacin."
 

balda

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Seems it's a mistake to take breaks from E/Tocotrienols.
Planning to keep it non-stop. Hope it's safe, at least for tocotrienols (not tocopherols).

The rest components of the daily routine are the same as before:
- niacin 1/1.5gm
- ceti (not so regularly, dammit)
- needling (not so regularly)
- extra: hagerty's mass (not fully sure about the efficiency, just funny. i'm curious about it's anti-gray potential mostly)
- extra: taurin (for another reason, but heard it affects hairs too. mildly anti-fibrotic. nothing to share about it)

ps. still choosing potential strong fibrosis reverting stuff.
 
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StayPositive

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Seems it's a mistake to take breaks from E/Tocotrienols.
Planning to keep it non-stop. Hope it's safe, at least for tocotrienols (not tocopherols).

The rest items of the dailt routine are the same as before:
- niacin 1/1.5gm
- ceti (not so regularly, dammit)
- needling (not so regular)
- extra: hagerty's mass (not fully sure about the efficiency, just funny. i'm curious about it's anti-gray potential mostly)
- extra: taurin (for another reason, but hear it affects hairs too. nothing to share about it)

ps. still choosing potential strong fibrosis reverting stuff.


I am going to try this anti inflammation / anti fibrosis protocol :

Topical etoricoxib
Topical setipiprant
Topical caffeine
Topical dexpanthenol
Topical L carnitine (it inhibits TGF-b like taurine)
Topical taurine
Topical niacin

What do you think?
 
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