Dutasteride results

[Wing]

Kindly requesting clarification

JJ suggested from personal experience to go against guideline amounts and take 2.5 mg of dutasteride within the first month or so, to boost the hairline, and slowly taking less and less until you only take to 0.5mg a day... Here is the routine I used:

-1.5 mg a day for a month
- 1.0 mg a day for 2 weeks
-0.5 mg a day from the on


Hi, Just some clarification -
So you did *not* start with 2.5 mg of dutasteride and instead started with 1.5 mg a day for a month, then 1.0 mg a day for 2 weeks, and then 0.5 mg a day up until the present day?

Also, did you get a physician to prescribe you dutasteride? If not, how did you get the dutasteride?

Thanks,
Wing

 

[karalabe]

Yes, really.



You seem to be confused! First of all, no doctor is going to prescribe 2.5 mg of dutasteride to a patient just to treat his male pattern baldness. That was just an experimental dose used by Glaxo for the purpose of their brief trial; the trial lasted for only six months. No doctor is going to have anybody take such a dose for the rest of his life just to treat his hairloss, unless he's just DYING to have the pants sued off him!! :shock:

Second of all, you're forgetting to take the NEGATIVE hairs from the placebo into account: -32.3. That makes the difference between finasteride and dutasteride a little less significant still:

Finasteride: +107.9 hairs
Dutasteride: +126.9 hairs

So this is the bottom-line: dutasteride at the FDA-approved dose of 0.5 mg/day is only a little better than finasteride (126.9, compared to 107.9).

I have to strongly disagree.
20% in medical science is HUGE. A lot of medications and other treatment modalities could only dream to make 20% difference. Just saying...
I have been taking finasteride 0.5 for years and I am happy with it. I also find this widespread talk about side effects baseless. Even 5 mg of finasteride is fairly benign as medications go, let alone 1 mg. It's smart to keep an open eye (and mind) for side effects but the fear mongering how these meds will alter your brain and so on is ridiculous based on current science.

 

[Bryan]

I have to strongly disagree.
20% in medical science is HUGE. A lot of medications and other treatment modalities could only dream to make 20% difference. Just saying...

Finasteride is 85% as effective as dutasteride (107.9 / 126.9 = 85.03%).

 

[karalabe]

Finasteride is 85% as effective as dutasteride (107.9 / 126.9 = 85.03%).

Dutasteride is 18% better than finasteride- 19/107.9- slice it or dice it anyway you want. Not a trivial difference.

 

[fml]

Also, you guys are comparing 0.5mg dutasteride to 5mg finasteride rather than 1mg finasteride. What is the increased hair count for 1mg finasteride?

 

[abcdefg]

I was just referring to how this guy had little success on propecia but then dramatic results on dutasteride so I mean assuming this is true why would that happen if type 1 is not really involved and it does not inhibit the type 2 that much more then propecia?

 

[WarLord]

I was just referring to how this guy had little success on propecia but then dramatic results on dutasteride so I mean assuming this is true why would that happen if type 1 is not really involved and it does not inhibit the type 2 that much more then propecia?

Studies on dutasteride showed that there was a linear correlation between the suppression of scalp DHT and the number of regrown hairs. The type 1 makes up only about one-third of scalp DHT, so it is expectable that the suppression of type1 will have little effect on hair loss. However, if you suppress type2 and then in addition even type1, it will make a significant difference.

 

[LawOfThelema]

I have to strongly disagree.
20% in medical science is HUGE. A lot of medications and other treatment modalities could only dream to make 20% difference. Just saying...
I have been taking finasteride 0.5 for years and I am happy with it. I also find this widespread talk about side effects baseless. Even 5 mg of finasteride is fairly benign as medications go, let alone 1 mg. It's smart to keep an open eye (and mind) for side effects but the fear mongering how these meds will alter your brain and so on is ridiculous based on current science.

Untrue. Read the recent review in the JOurnal of Sexual Medicine on the side effect of 5aR inhibition therapy. Affecting neurosteroids in the brain is not a baseless speculation. Even finasteride despite being purported as a low inhibitior of type 1 5ar which is that which is in the brain, has shown to reduce neurosteroids which are know to have anxiolytic and antidepressive effects in the brain. This is the most current science. Whether or not you experience it altering your brain, it is definitively altering your brain, dutasteride more so since it actually is a strong inhibitor of type i 5ar.

 

[fml]

Whether or not you experience it altering your brain, it is definitively altering your brain, dutasteride more so since it actually is a strong inhibitor of type i 5ar.

Do these effects reverse if usage stops?

 

[WarLord]

Untrue. Read the recent review in the JOurnal of Sexual Medicine on the side effect of 5aR inhibition therapy. Affecting neurosteroids in the brain is not a baseless speculation. Even finasteride despite being purported as a low inhibitior of type 1 5ar which is that which is in the brain, has shown to reduce neurosteroids which are know to have anxiolytic and antidepressive effects in the brain. This is the most current science. Whether or not you experience it altering your brain, it is definitively altering your brain, dutasteride more so since it actually is a strong inhibitor of type i 5ar.

Well, this means that after one stops using dutasteride and loses his hair, his depressions will disappear? LOL

 

[karalabe]

Untrue. Read the recent review in the JOurnal of Sexual Medicine on the side effect of 5aR inhibition therapy. Affecting neurosteroids in the brain is not a baseless speculation. Even finasteride despite being purported as a low inhibitior of type 1 5ar which is that which is in the brain, has shown to reduce neurosteroids which are know to have anxiolytic and antidepressive effects in the brain. This is the most current science. Whether or not you experience it altering your brain, it is definitively altering your brain, dutasteride more so since it actually is a strong inhibitor of type i 5ar.

I'll be the first to retract my statement if proven otherwise. Can you send me the reference? Neurosteroids as such are a very vague idea and not a proven undeniable concept as traditional transmitters.

 

[Quadzilla99]

Also, you guys are comparing 0.5mg dutasteride to 5mg finasteride rather than 1mg finasteride. What is the increased hair count for 1mg finasteride?

Good question imho

 

[karalabe]

The study didn't look at 0.5 mg AFAIK. However, it is probably more appropriate to compare dutasteride 0.5 mg to finasteride 5 mg as those are the approved full-strength dosages for BPH.

Is is just me or the forum subscription feature doesn't work?

 

[LawOfThelema]

Here is a reference:

http://pmr.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_03/pmr2009a0025.pdf

 

[karalabe]

Here is a reference:

http://pmr.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_03/pmr2009a0025.pdf

I meant the study in Journal of Sexual Medicine. The reference above is absolutely irrelevant to the argument whether steroids 'alter your brain' or not. It only shows that finasteride alters steroid metabolism- duh. That's why people take it.
Frankly, if I remember correctly finasteride had no side-effects over placebo in the large phase II-III trials.

 

[Quadzilla99]

The study didn't look at 0.5 mg AFAIK. However, it is probably more appropriate to compare dutasteride 0.5 mg to finasteride 5 mg as those are the approved full-strength dosages for BPH.

Its more appropriate if your doing a BPH study but almost no one takes 5 mg a day for male pattern baldness so 1 mg finasteride would be more appropriate in that case. Also, does anyone know where you can duta in tablet form? It is usually sold in capsule form so you can't even split to a lower dose in most cases.

 

[LawOfThelema]

The reference above is absolutely irrelevant to the argument whether steroids 'alter your brain' or not.

This was never the argument. The argument was that dutasteride isn't the only 5ar reducing agent that alters neurosteroids, finasteride is also altering neurosteroids. Though if you want evidence that neuroACTIVE steroids have neurological effects which can translate to subjective mental experience you can find that as well.

here is the sexual medicine journal abstract. not finding the full paper at the moment, tho it is out there since I've looked it over before.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02255.x/abstract

try searching google scholar for the full

 

[karalabe]

This was never the argument. The argument was that dutasteride isn't the only 5ar reducing agent that alters neurosteroids, finasteride is also altering neurosteroids. Though if you want evidence that neuroACTIVE steroids have neurological effects which can translate to subjective mental experience you can find that as well.

here is the sexual medicine journal abstract. not finding the full paper at the moment, tho it is out there since I've looked it over before.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02255.x/abstract

try searching google scholar for the full

Actually, no. The argument was/is that there is zero good evidence that 5AR inhibition will "alter your brain". Yes, you can find all kinds of garbage published and this study is a good example. Interviews of people who experienced side effects?! Not the whole population who took the medication (in which mind you the incidence of decreased libido, ER, etc was like 1% in the large placebo-controlled trials), no controls, forget about double-blind. Garbage.
What irritates me (to the point of having to register to this forum) is that this kind of BS probably prevents lots of people who can really benefit from finansteride or dutasteride to give it a shot. There are no guarantees in life and nobody can promise you 100% safety but critically reviewing data and getting the most of it is imperative.
Yes, Glaxo felt compelled to list depression as a possible side effect of Propecia. Heck, depression and every other condition under the sun is listed on the insert on almost every medication. Is it possible that finasteride can cause or exacerbate depression in rare cases? Possibly. Should we be fear-mongering that these meds will alter your brain? Heck, no! No, without data to support that.
What I can guarantee you without the need for any controlled studies is this- scores of young men get depressed or at lease feel the quality of their life is greatly diminished by going bald at a young age.

 

[thinallover]

Actually, no. The argument was/is that there is zero good evidence that 5AR inhibition will "alter your brain". Yes, you can find all kinds of garbage published and this study is a good example. Interviews of people who experienced side effects?! Not the whole population who took the medication (in which mind you the incidence of decreased libido, ER, etc was like 1% in the large placebo-controlled trials), no controls, forget about double-blind. Garbage.
What irritates me (to the point of having to register to this forum) is that this kind of BS probably prevents lots of people who can really benefit from finansteride or dutasteride to give it a shot. There are no guarantees in life and nobody can promise you 100% safety but critically reviewing data and getting the most of it is imperative.
Yes, Glaxo felt compelled to list depression as a possible side effect of Propecia. Heck, depression and every other condition under the sun is listed on the insert on almost every medication. Is it possible that finasteride can cause or exacerbate depression in rare cases? Possibly. Should we be fear-mongering that these meds will alter your brain? Heck, no! No, without data to support that.
What I can guarantee you without the need for any controlled studies is this- scores of young men get depressed or at lease feel the quality of their life is greatly diminished by going bald at a young age.

I took dutasteride for about 3-4 years - age 23-27. It was great to have some thick hair growth and a full set of hair but this wore off as time went by and I felt it wasnt. I was left with brain fog - difficulty finding words to finish sentences, felt dull - no zip or sharpness, knew my hormones were not natural - estrogen high and low free testosterone and just didn't feel right. My libido was okay though but I think my young age helped in this respect. After a few years of getting off it I feel much better I am 32 now, more myself, confident with a zip/sharpness but I am back to square 1 - hair is in a very bad state, i've had agressive shedding last couple of weeks after having the bright idea of water only washing for 6 weeeks. I am contemplating on getting big 3 (yes finasteride might be okay, i need to research more) and addressing all aspects of diet and lifestyle. The dutasteride life is not worth it, yes, even if you have a full head of hair.

 

[zzzzz]

I took dutasteride for about 3-4 years - age 23-27. It was great to have some thick hair growth and a full set of hair but this wore off as time went by and I felt it wasnt. I was left with brain fog - difficulty finding words to finish sentences, felt dull - no zip or sharpness, knew my hormones were not natural - estrogen high and low free testosterone and just didn't feel right. My libido was okay though but I think my young age helped in this respect. After a few years of getting off it I feel much better I am 32 now, more myself, confident with a zip/sharpness but I am back to square 1 - hair is in a very bad state, i've had agressive shedding last couple of weeks after having the bright idea of water only washing for 6 weeeks. I am contemplating on getting big 3 (yes finasteride might be okay, i need to research more) and addressing all aspects of diet and lifestyle. The dutasteride life is not worth it, yes, even if you have a full head of hair.

Dutasteride causes free testosterone to increase, not decrease. This is true for everyone. If your free test was low it was not due to dutasteride but something else