Duration of side effects on finasteride

Venom34

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Hi guys, I'm a long-time lurker on this site (going back to the middle of about 2008) and it was through here that I learned about the ins and outs of hairloss treatments, so to that end, I appreciate everything that you guys do.

To give you some background about myself, I'm a 22 year old who has a family history of male pattern baldness and had some recession at the temples which prompted me to see a hairloss specialist who prescribed me Proscar in November of 2008 and told me to take it in conjunction with minoxidil. I commenced taking the tablet a few months later (because he told me my hair loss was quite minimal, so I became less concerned about it) and took a dosage of 1.25mg every second day between May and this past Wednesday. With the addition of minoxidil I got very good results, to the extent that when I saw the doctor eight days ago he told me I had no visible signs of hairloss at all. He even made the suggestion that I get off finasteride for six months, basically because he attributed my gains to minoxidil and thought I could go without it. I insisted that I should stay on it and he wrote me another prescription after I said I'd experienced no real sides apart from occasional red eyes the morning after taking it and an infrequent nut ache, but this past Tuesday night when I was doing what a 22 year old does when they're by themselves I noticed that there was a decided lack of feeling.

Anyway, I didn't pay much attention to it until Wednesday night when I was sitting on the couch under a blanket with a girl who tried to initiate a little bit of 'activity' when I noticed I was not only disinterested but also unable to fly the flag at more than half-mast when I tried to get an erection. I then became a bit concerned about it, noticing that I don't get morning erections any more and cannot get properly erect, even when I work myself over really hard. To make matters worse, last night I got an invitation back to the hotel room of a girl I met at a nightclub and I simply couldn't do it. Not only was my libido shot, but I couldn't get any movement in the pants. I took some horny goat weed before going out last night too, but that had no effect. For the record, I have never had performance anxiety EVER.

So, my intention is obviously to quit the drug immediately, but I want to ask anyone here who has been through the same thing what the duration of their side effects was. I'm especially concerned because I'm going away with two girls for one month in a fortnight and the thought of not being able to get it up in any meaningful way scares the sh*t out of me. I'm going to try and get in to see my doctor before I go too, but I thought I'd post here to see what I should expect from someone who has been through a similar thing.

Thanks in advance, and apologies for a long post.
 

curiouscharles

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It literally could all be in your head... but it also could be very real.

My advice is always to ride it out... any slight libido issues I had in the past are now just that - in the past.

For the time being, try cutting your dosage in half, or take the same dosage EOD (every other day) for awhile and see if the side effects subside.

I was playing Hamlet in a professional production last summer, and the stress of the show brought some weird side effects forth (mostly CRAZY libido, and intense brain fog). I then realized this was all in my head (attributing it to finas that is) since when I stopped eating dairy (after a castmate's suggestion) all my side effects went away.

Hope this helps at all - best thing to do is just not to worry. My dad's a physician, and whenever I went worrying to him he'd tell me "it's probably in your head son, I've never had a patient have lasting side effects from propecia, it's completely harmless". (Then again, he probably told me this to help calm me down, and it was probably the smart thing to do).
 

Venom34

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Firstly, thanks for the reply (I also realise I have probably posted this in the wrong part of the forum.)

The reason why I don't think the sides are in my head has to do firstly with the fact that I was not thinking about my libido at all prior to the first physical indication that everything wasn't working as it should be, and secondly because I've taken the drug for about eight months to this point without incident. I would be more willing to accept that explanation if I had been actively trying to identify side effects, which would be more conducive to me imagining things that weren't there.

Secondly, I think this is more than a 'slight' problem as you describe it. The inability to get and maintain an erection without a concerted effort on my behalf, and not being able to go back to a girl's hotel room, is a huge concern for me. In fact, the idea that I'm travelling for a month with two girls in less than a fortnight and may be departing with a less than fully functional member terrifies me. To this end, I respectfully disagree with the suggestion to ride it out and think quitting immediately is in my best interests, because no head of hair is worth risking my sexual functionality, in my opinion. It is nevertheless heartening to hear that you experienced a relatively quick normalisation of your condition when you experienced some adverse effects.
 

curiouscharles

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You're clearly freaking out based on that reply, but that's understandable.

Like I said, try reducing your dosage by half, or taking the same dosage every other day.
 

Mew

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Give your body a rest, take a break from the drug and see if things come back online in the coming weeks.

This is not in your head, these are listed side effects from the drug manufacturer. Permanent erectile dysfunction is now a listed potential side effect outcome by both the Swedish MPA and UK MHRA (regulating agencies) for this medication in Europe.

I recommend you read the following thread for more info. Most likely if you discontinue use, things will revert back to normal over coming weeks/months.

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=55375&p=529838#p529838

"Riding it out" will only further surpress 5AR2 and DHT in your body, causing ongoing hormonal alterations and most likely ongoing worsening of side effects. Reducing dosage makes no difference due to near flat-dose response rate of Finasteride such that even 0.2mg inhibits nearly same amount of DHT as 1mg or 5mg.

Choice is yours.
 

Venom34

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I've made my choice Mew. The finasteride is going in the bin. Having reviewed a lot of what you have written (though I'm not scientist and have a hard time deciphering some of it), however, and having read a number of threads across the internet that pertain to permanent sexual side effects from the use of this drug, I am now absolutely terrified. Whilst I acknowledge that most studies indicate that side effects will subside after discontinuing the drug, the remote chance that I won't overcome them is going to play on my mind until there is a resolution (if such is forthcoming). I will immediately make an appointment with my GP and I'll attempt to contact the hair loss specialist on Monday too.

Mew - is there anything I can take in the interim to aid recovery? As I mentioned earlier, I'm taking a horny goat weed supplement. I also take 25mg of Zinc daily and I'm contemplating purchasing some L-Arginine, but I don't know much about what it does or how it works. Further, when will the finasteride be completely out of my system? I remember seeing a graph some time ago which indicated that the half-life of the drug is short but that one tablet stays in your system for a considerable amount of time.

What a terrible week :(
 

Mew

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It's important not to worry at this stage.

Those who experience ongoing problems after quitting the medication are certainly in the minority, whatever percentage that may be. As mentioned, most likely you will be fine in the coming weeks/months.

In the meantime, you should get a hormone profile done to assess what impact the drug was having on your hormones, as soon as possible (ie, within a week of quitting). This will give some indication about what it was doing, since new 5AR2 enzyme synthesis and a return of DHT will likely start to occur within 10-14 days, or even sooner.

Recommended tests:

Total Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone
Androstenedione
DHT
3alpha-diol G (Androstenediol glucuronide -- ("Adiol-G" for short): metabolite of DHT, measures 5AR-II activity
Estradiol (E2)
LH
FSH
SHBG
Prolactin
TSH (thyroid)
AST (liver)
ALT (liver)
GGT (liver)

I have attached some screenshots which should provide more info on metabolism and half-life of drug. Drug is basically metabolized within 6-8 hrs by the body, but 5AR2 inhibition lasts for days even after a single dose.

Again, at this stage I wouldn't worry... the odds are likely in your favor that everything will turn out just fine. If things don't in coming months, or your side effects worsen in that time, then it may be cause for concern at that point.

As for "aiding" recovery, there isn't anything you can do. Your own body will determine how it reacts to coming back online after quitting Finasteride, likely based on genetics, individual hormonal setpoints, and a host of other unknowns. Supplements will make no difference in affecting outcome.

Get good rest, eat healthy and relax in the meantime. You've been putting your endocrine system and organs through the ringer for nearly a year, and depriving your body of a vital hormone (DHT), neurosteroids and 5AR-related pathways during that time.
 

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Nuli

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Get off the man poison!! I had the same sides and took me a while to recover, around 6 months to get back to 100%
 

Venom34

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So, today is the 4th day I've been off the drug (bear in mind I was only taking 1.25mg EOD to begin with, so I've effectively missed only one dose), and I haven't noticed any resolution of the side effects yet. Nuli - can I ask how long you took the drug for before you discontinued use, and further, how long it took for you to notice an improvement in your sides?

Mew, I've been reading a lot of your posts, and I have to say that you provide a valuable resource through the Propecia Help website and on these forums. It seems that you are often unfairly maligned around these parts for discussing the potential side effects of Finasteride use, when it is apparent these effects are very real and troublesome for a significant minority of users. Are you able to explain why the 10-14 day period is generally the period in which DHT comes back 'online' and the system begins to 'normalise' (if all goes to plan, which I pray that it does)? Should there be any gradual improvement beforehand, or is it generally sudden for most people?

Thanks.
 

timbo

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Finasteride leaves the body very quickly (4-5 hour half life), but nobody really knows how long it takes for side effects to go away. Some doctors believe that there are tissue levels that exceed the half-life (Dr. Rassman), explaining a 2 week recovery, but that is only a little better than speculation.
 

Nuli

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I was on finasteride for 6 months taking 1mg ED. Once off, I noticed an increase in libido about 2 weeks off, then erections started to become harder again, morning and random woods started coming back, and sperm got a lot thicker. I also notice I "shoot" a lot farther now lol :woot:
 

Venom34

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I spoke to the doctor who prescribed me the medication on the phone earlier this morning. He was very relaxed, even in the face of me mentioning my research into irreversible sides. He indicated that it would take two to four weeks for me to get better based on the experience of his other patients, and that it would be gradual rather than a sudden reversal. He did mention, however, that these effects were rarely observed in a twenty-two year old. This has put my mind at ease to an extent, but as you can understand, I would be a lot more comfortable if everything was working as it should. I guess I'll give it a bit of time and see if things start to improve before stressing myself out about it like I did for much of the weekend.

Joe, I'm no expert, but I'd have a long hard think about the implications of continued usage, especially if you have been experiencing the symptoms for some time whilst on the drug.
 

Venom34

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Okay, today is the 12th day since I took my last pill. Still no real resolution as far as side effects are concerned - erections are perhaps slightly more firm, but I'm basically where I was when I quit. My libido is still completely non-existent, I feel no sensation when I'm trying to be intimate, and I don't experience spontaneous erections in the morning or during the night. I'm waiting for the surge of DHT I'm supposed to feel but it is yet to be forthcoming (at least, from what I can tell).

I know it is early days, but the doctor just contacted me and said my bloodwork was fine and there was nothing out of the ordinary. Unfortunately, I don't have the results for my bloodwork though so I can't post them here, because I'm aware that being at the bottom end of a 'normal' range isn't necessarily normal - I will nevertheless endeavour to get them to post here when I see him Wednesday. He wants to give me v**** too, but I'm somewhat opposed to popping more pills and know full well that this isn't a disorder caused by anxiety.

I wish I had never touched this poison in the first place.
 

BitchBoy

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Venom34 said:
Okay, today is the 12th day since I took my last pill. Still no real resolution as far as side effects are concerned - erections are perhaps slightly more firm, but I'm basically where I was when I quit. My libido is still completely non-existent, I feel no sensation when I'm trying to be intimate, and I don't experience spontaneous erections in the morning or during the night. I'm waiting for the surge of DHT I'm supposed to feel but it is yet to be forthcoming (at least, from what I can tell).

I know it is early days, but the doctor just contacted me and said my bloodwork was fine and there was nothing out of the ordinary. Unfortunately, I don't have the results for my bloodwork though so I can't post them here, because I'm aware that being at the bottom end of a 'normal' range isn't necessarily normal - I will nevertheless endeavour to get them to post here when I see him Wednesday. He wants to give me v**** too, but I'm somewhat opposed to popping more pills and know full well that this isn't a disorder caused by anxiety.

I wish I had never touched this poison in the first place.

It's statistically very very unlikely you won't get back to normal. I wouldn't worry until at least after 3 months. If it is lack of DHT that's the problem, and that's not for sure by any means, I think it may take time for it to have an effect on what ever it has an effect on. The speed of your metabolism and lots of other factors are at work here not just the half life on finasteride and your DHT levels getting back to normal.

v**** is crap when you have no labido. Doctors just play the odds when you talk to them about things like this and the odds of ED and low labido are that it's psycho sexual even in the case of finasteride, as there's no theoretical explanation as to why finasteride causes these sides. He's giving you v**** and might even suggest sexual therapy because that's all he can really do.
 

Venom34

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Okay, I'll try not to post in this thread until after I get back from vacation (or at least assuming things don't deteriorate from here). Anyway - on exactly the 14th day (yesterday) since I took my last pill, I finally had some morning wood. Same thing this morning. Libido is still bad (maybe 2/10, whereas it was a 0/10 prior to yesterday), but it does seem to be gradually improving. Hopefully my recovery will continue on this trajectory over the next few weeks.

Thanks for everybody's input. I'll endeavour to post more updates down the track, just to give people an idea of timeframes and the such.
 

Venom34

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Today will be the 17th day since I last took finasteride, and things have taken a turn for the worst. After three days of steady improvement, morning wood, the odd spontaneous erection and increased libido (something I noticed was especially prominent yesterday - near my 'normal' level), today I am completely dead below the waist. This is a real kick in the pants (figuratively and literally) because I was feeling much better yesterday and was starting to look forward to my trip. I even cancelled my appointment with the doctor thinking everything was looking up.

Now, everything is back to square one and I feel dreadful because I leave in less than 48 hours. Can anybody tell me if they experienced similar peaks and troughs on the road to recovery, or am I going to be consigned to the long-term side-effects category now, given this experience seems to be commonplace amongst those who haven't really recovered?

This sucks. :(
 

follicle84

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It took 2months for me to get complete recovery from finasteride. Hang in there your body will return to normal.
 

Venom34

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I went to a few health food stores trying to find some DIM extract, and the person at the first shop said they had never heard of it and the person at the second shop said they had never seen it available for sale over the counter in Australia. As such, I'll have to pick some up in the US next week, hopefully when I'm in NYC.

Follicle84 - did you have many ups and downs as you recovered, or was it a linear trajectory? My biggest concern is that nearly everybody who reports long-term sides seems to have a short period of 'phantom recovery' before deteriorating, whereas most people who recover properly don't seem to go backwards once they're getting better.
 
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