Dry skin with finasteride

[Fanjeera]

Anyone else has this? I have dry red rashes on my face and they're really making me ugly and wrinkly.
How DHT influences skin oil production: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6258 ... t=Abstract

 

[Dogs3]

Fanjeera, I feel bad for you man, your so obviously a hypochondriac and you just won't admit it. I couldn't believe it when I read that you only took finasteride for 9 days and you think its causing all of your problems, how long has it been, like months after your stopped?

Whatever, no point in arguing, I know you'll just blame everything on the finasteride. But let me just tell you this: I'm a bit of a hypochondriac too, I think a lot of people on these boards are. So when I started finasteride and read all the horror stories, I was sure that in the first week or two i was experiencing: brain fog, "nut ache" dry skin, oily skin, wrinkles, puffiness etc. I nearly stopped but luckily for me I listened to the advice of some of the more level headed posters on these forums and they convinced me to just give it a few months and see where I was, and to take a break from the forums. I took their advice, and decided either I'm taking this sh*t or losing my hair, and to hell with it if i experience sides I dont care. And wouldnt you know it, a day or two later all this bullshit I thought I was experiencing just kind of faded away. Nothing had changed, I was just freaking myself out. After 9 months on finasteride I had no noticeable recession and I felt absolutely great, no sides or anything. No muscle loss or any bullshit, I played football throughout college and I felt exaclt the same my last year (the year I was on finasteride) as I did my previous years except for the fact that I was even more confident b/c my hair was looking so good.

After a year on finasteride I switched to dutasteride b/c of its increased effectiveness and convinced two of my buddies to try it too. None of us had sides (i never told them about these forums btw, or else they might have experienced sides) and its been as good or even better than finasteride and zero sides.

Man, it seriously sucks what your going through, but you cannot blame everything on finasteride. Your scaring off potentially thankful users of the drug with your absurdity. And I in particular take offense to it because it was posts like yours that nearly scared me off this drug that has been such an incredible success for me.

When someone asks me for advice on taking finasteride, I say it worked for me, and it works for almost everyone but there is a small risk of side effects which tend to go away upon stopping it. Thats the truth. But every time you see someone who is apprehensive you tell them "It will ruin your life". Thats bullshit right there dude, just because you think it fucked your life up doesnt mean it will have the same effect on everyone else.

I know I can't change your mind on this but at least stop trying to persuade new, uniformed users off of the drug with your incredible stories. Just be fair. I try to be fair, i dont say it will work as well for you as it did for me with no sides, I just try to give them the facts and encourage them that it is the best route to go if you are serious about preventing hair loss. you can discourage them if you want, but just please stop trying to scare the f*ck out of them for no good reason.

 

[Fanjeera]

Finasteride is of course the best solution for hair loss, but taking it has its consequences under what I'm suffering right now. This is my standpoint as far as people still use Propecia to cure their baldness. But it seems that there are fewer and fewer of those.
Yeah, erection problems and stuff like that can be psychological, but it's not possible to think that you are infertile, barely produce sperm or have dots of rash on your face. And there are medical facts that lack of DHT can cause all these problems and even far rougher ones.

 

[timbo]

Fanjeera the problem here is that no one believes you anymore. You should have quit while you were ahead. It is just scientifically improbable that you are going to develop all of these side effects on such a small dosage for such a small amount of time. Not to mention the fact that you are claiming to have new side effects after you've been off the drug for some time.

 

[Fanjeera]

I know it's strange, but there are people with the exact same side effect complaining on finasteride, so I think it's very likely.

 

[Bryan]

How DHT influences skin oil production: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6258 ... t=Abstract

Finasteride has been shown not to have any effect on sebum production, and it was in a carefully controlled study by some top-notch researchers. So WHY didn't it affect sebum? Because sebaceous glands contain the type 1 form of the 5a-reductase enzyme, which finasteride doesn't touch.

 

[Mew]

Because sebaceous glands contain the type 1 form of the 5a-reductase enzyme, which finasteride doesn't touch.

Not true, Finasteride does eventually bind with 5AR1 if taken long enough. It is nowhere near the level of 5AR2 inhibition, however. I don't have the studies in front of me at the moment but can dig them up.

I can also personally attest to loss of sebum and oil production on scalp and skin while on and since quitting Finasteride. I used to have very oily skin, oily/itchy scalp and extreme seborrheic dermatitis that required prescription topical corticosteroids to control. While on and since Finasteride, I no longer have these issues, and skin is extremely dry and flaky.

 

[Mew]

Some studies showing finasteride inhibits 5AR1, however it is far less potent against 5ar1 vs 5ar2.

Linear Relationships between the Ligand Binding Energy and the Activation Energy of Time-dependent Inhibition of Steroid 5?-Reductase by ?1-4-Azasteroids
http://www.jbc.org/content/276/24/21359.full

"Finasteride inhibits both 5AR1 and 5AR2 in a time-dependent manner (5-7). The kinetic mechanism of this time-dependent inhibition is characterized by a fast binding step for the formation of an initial enzyme-inhibitor complex (EI), followed by a time-dependent event leading to the formation of an apparently irreversible enzyme-inhibitor complex (EI*). "

Irreversible inhibition of human 5 alpha-reductase - Merck Patent
http://www.google.com/patents?id=x_MXAA ... ng&f=false

PAGE 3:

Although finasteride is not a significant inhibitor of 5
human skin (type 1) isozyme at doses employed in the
treatment of BPH, finasteride does slowly form a comparable
high affinity complex with this isozyme. As determined
by Tian, et al., Biochemistry 33: 2291-2296 (1994), the
second-order rate constant for formation of this complex is 10
4.0xl03 IVT1 s'1' which is about 1% of the rate constant
against the prostate isozyme. Based on the apparent irreversible
inhibition and on structure-activity considerations,
Tian et al., proposed that finasteride binds to the enzyme
covalently as a Michael acceptor.

http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmace ... raphs-%20P)/PROPECIA.html

In humans, the mechanism of action of finasteride is based on its preferential inhibition of the Type II isozyme. Using native tissues (scalp and prostate), in vitro binding studies examining the potential of finasteride to inhibit either isozyme revealed a 100-fold selectivity for the human Type II 5 alpha-reductase over Type I isozyme (IC50=500 and 4.2 nM for Type I and II, respectively). For both isozymes, the inhibition by finasteride is accompanied by reduction of the inhibitor to dihydrofinasteride and adduct formation with NADP+. The turnover for the enzyme complex is slow (t1/2 approximately 30 days for the Type II enzyme complex and 14 days for the Type I complex).

SELECTIVITY OF FINASTERIDE AS AN IN VIVO INHIBITOR OF 5 alpha-REDUCTASE ISOZYME ENZYMATIC ACTIVITY IN THE HUMAN PROSTATE
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 00ca01a8dc

In prostatic tissue from these patients, the type II enzymatic activity is inhibited 100-fold compared with tissues obtained from placebo treated patients. The type II immunoreactivity is up regulated 2-fold. The type I isozyme is inhibited 3-fold and potentially still contributes to DHT production.

finasteride does affect sebum DHT concentrations via 5AR2 inhibition:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/82/5/1373.pdf

The small (;15%) reduction in sebum DHT after 5 mg finasteride could be a result of 5aR2 inhibition in the root sheath of the hair follicle where this isozyme has been identified (34) or could result from the large reduction (;70%) in serum DHT, which could affect 5aR activity through a reduced “feed-towardâ€￾ activation described for this enzyme (35) or could reflect the possibility that a component of sebum DHT is passively derived from serum.

 

[Bryan]

Not true, Finasteride does eventually bind with 5AR1 if taken long enough.

You're probably confusing finasteride with dutasteride, which _does_ build up in the bloodstream. Finasteride doesn't do that to any significant extent.

It's been estimated that to inhibit 5a-reductase type 1 by 50%, you'd have to take around 270 mg/day of finasteride. Did you take that much?

I can also personally attest to loss of sebum and oil production on scalp and skin while on and since quitting Finasteride. I used to have very oily skin, oily/itchy scalp and extreme seborrheic dermatitis that required prescription topical corticosteroids to control. While on and since Finasteride, I no longer have these issues, and skin is extremely dry and flaky

People tend to have gradually declining sebum levels as they age. THAT is probably what accounts for your lower sebum, not finasteride.

 

[Mew]

You're probably confusing finasteride with dutasteride, which _does_ build up in the bloodstream. Finasteride doesn't do that to any significant extent.

No, I'm not confusing them at all and am well aware of the steady-state effects of Dutasteride's buildup in the bloodstream and potent inhibition of both 5AR enzymes.

My point was, your comment stated Finasteride had no effect on 5AR1. All I'm saying is it DOES, however it is at such a low level compared to the effects against 5AR2, that it is likely not overly consequential. Regardless, I provided studies above to validate this point.

People tend to have gradually declining sebum levels as they age. THAT is probably what accounts for your lower sebum, not finasteride.

Uh no, age has nothing to do with it.

Let's see, age 25... before drug, have to use prescription corticosteroids on scalp to give temproary relief from scaling dandruff and crusts on scalp.

Decide to get on Finasteride, take it for 11 months. Within a few weeks, oil and sebum production ceases, dry skin starts to take effect, scales and dandruff are completely gone, as well as scalp itch... a direct result of Finasteride's anti-androgenic effects.

Age being a factor? Not at all.
Drug being a factor? Absolutely, and ever since quitting as well, indicating to me the drug has left me with decreased androgenic activity body-wide, in both 5AR1 and 5AR2 tissues.

 

[Bryan]

Uh no, age has nothing to do with it.

Let's see, age 25... before drug, have to use prescription corticosteroids on scalp to give temproary relief from scaling dandruff and crusts on scalp.

Decide to get on Finasteride, take it for 11 months. Within a few weeks, oil and sebum production ceases, dry skin starts to take effect, scales and dandruff are completely gone, as well as scalp itch... a direct result of Finasteride's anti-androgenic effects.

Age being a factor? Not at all.
Drug being a factor? Absolutely, and ever since quitting as well, indicating to me the drug has left me with decreased androgenic activity body-wide, in both 5AR1 and 5AR2 tissues.

Oh, so you think the drug left you with a PERMANENTLY decreased androgenic activity body-wide, huh?

Look, I think you just had a skin condition which you eventually grew out of, and you're erroneously attributing it to the finasteride. Despite your amusing and heartfelt anecdote, I put a lot more stock in a study done by some serious medical researchers (including Julianne Imperato-McGinley, by the way, the doctor who did the original work on the pseudohermaphrodites in the Dominican Republic) who found that finasteride had no effect on sebum production.

 

[Boondock]

It's such a "You got SERVED" moment whenever Bryan bitchslaps people with knowledge around here.

 

[Boondock]

EDIT: Double post

 

[Mew]

Oh, so you think the drug left you with a PERMANENTLY decreased androgenic activity body-wide, huh?

Yes, I most certainly do, have the bloodwork to prove it, and have the changes in muscle mass, loss of libido and overall loss of androgenic action that goes along with becoming hypogonadal. Same goes for many others with permanent problems from finasteride who end up with hypogonadal levels of Testosterone within weeks of quitting the drug.

BTW, permanent erectile dysfunction is now listed as an official side effect in the EU and UK. None of that was "supposed" to happen from quitting a 5AR inhibitor, either, despite what your "studies" from the guy who researched 5AR2 deficiency in the 70s says.

Look, I think you just had a skin condition which you eventually grew out of, and you're erroneously attributing it to the finasteride.

You can "think" whatever you want, but I have first-hand experience with this medication and its effects while YOU do not, since you will not take it (and just why is that, Bryan?).

I know my body, and how I was before, while on, and since quitting the drug.
I am giving you my first hand clinical experience with the medication, effects which have continued for myself and a minority of others who seem to have longterm issues even after quitting the medication (a condition you also disbelieve exists, despite officially published information to the contrary). I have also provided studies in this thread mentioning Finasteride's effects on 5AR1 and 5AR2/sebum production which you also conveniently overlooked.

Either way, overproducing sebum and oil, and then experiencing the complete opposite within weeks of taking a potent drug with anti-androgenic effects in the male body, which decreases the most potent androgen, DHT, which is implicated in androgenic sebum and skin activity... it's quite obvious what occurred here, for me... but I know you will beg to differ till the bitter end.

Anyway, this banter is getting old. You'll continue to claim Finasteride is some harmless medication that cannot possibly have effects which have not been documented, or that go beyond those some researchers have claimed it is not attributable to, while I will disagree.

In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Bryan]

I have also provided studies in this thread mentioning Finasteride's effects on 5AR1 and 5AR2/sebum production which you also conveniently overlooked.

Uhh....excuse me, but you haven't provided any studies mentioning finasteride's effects on sebum production. _I_ am the only one who has done that (I didn't actually fully cite it, but I can certainly do that if you want to read it), and YOU very conveniently ignored it!! :smack:

Either way, overproducing sebum and oil, and then experiencing the complete opposite within weeks of taking a potent drug with anti-androgenic effects in the male body, which decreases the most potent androgen, DHT, which is implicated in androgenic sebum and skin activity... it's quite obvious what occurred here, for me... but I know you will beg to differ till the bitter end.

Yeah, I'm funny that way: I generally believe scientific studies over user anecdotes. No offense.

In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I guess so. I'll go with the scientific literature.

 

[armandein]

A systemic type I 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor is ineffective in the treatment of acne vulgaris. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2004 Mar;50(3):443-7.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Feb;76(2):524-8.

The androgen control of sebum production. Studies of subjects with dihydrotestosterone deficiency and complete androgen insensitivity.

Imperato-McGinley J, Gautier T, Cai LQ, Yee B, Epstein J, Pochi P.

 

[dougfunny]

A systemic type I 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor is ineffective in the treatment of acne vulgaris. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2004 Mar;50(3):443-7.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Feb;76(2):524-8.

The androgen control of sebum production. Studies of subjects with dihydrotestosterone deficiency and complete androgen insensitivity.

Imperato-McGinley J, Gautier T, Cai LQ, Yee B, Epstein J, Pochi P.

Just because it does not reduce acne does not mean it does not reduce sebum. It might just not reduce it enough. Accutane for example absolutely kills your oil glands - more like a 100% reduction.

I really believe type 1 inhibitors work for sebum reduction - I've noticed around a 50% decrease w/ dutasteride. Still have some acne despite this. Propecia actually made sebum worse btw.

Plus that study posted is really legit - no decease with propecia. But your messing with your hormones so all sorts of weird stuff can happen - you should probably get your blood tested to see if anything is out of whack.

 

[dougfunny]

repost

repost

 

[Bryan]

Accutane for example absolutely kills your oil glands - more like a 100% reduction.

Up to about 90%, actually.