jimmystanley
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 0
i went to look at visably young today, but couldn't find any cp's in the ingredients. is there another line? or is it listed as a different ingredient?
Dr. Lee & Cu peptides
- Thread starter viperfish
- Start date
G
Guest
Guest
pale blue and copper design by Nutrogena
contains copper tri-peptides licensed from Doctor Pickart
contains copper tri-peptides licensed from Doctor Pickart
The Gardener
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 25
His "*** So Soft" a*** lube has copper peptides in it as well. Comes in a black and blue cylindrical container with a phallic applicator top.
- Reaction score
- 42
Homie said:
That's the specific peptide sequence that they used, yeah...
Homie said:
You coudn't even just order something like that from a chemical company. You'd have to buy them from a company that specialized in producing such custom peptides (like ProCyte, for example)...
Bryan
Dave001
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Temples said:Yeah, when 2 experts disagree on something, it can be quite confusing to the layman. From what I've read, Dr. Lee respects Dr. Pickart, he just disagrees with him.
I too have been using Folligen lotion since it's so cheap and can only help I figure. It's doesn't burn or stain my head green thankfully. I just got my 5% Xandrox today so hopefully this will be a winning combination for me in my post-finasteride era.
Bryan, have you ever thought about a polite e-mail debate with Dr. Lee? I'm sure the members here would dig that!
Nah, I'm sure the members would much rather a public debate so that participants attempting to weasel there way out of a question would get called out on it.
Would you believe that such a spectacle has already taken place? I think everyone should read this semi-contiguous dialog between Bryan, me, and Dr. Lee. It should give you some idea of how seriously he takes his research.
A lot of you may feel compelled to jump in and add some kind words about Dr. Lee, without defending his position on this issue. But, as Bryan has pointed out before, no one is arguing that Dr. Lee isn't a "nice guy," and wouldn't make for a pleasant neighbor. However, his failure to address some very relevant and justified concerns about some of the products he actively promotes is totally unacceptable.
I believe it was Dr. Lee's response to another poster, Chuck, that ignited the flames, and preceded the posts from Bryan and me. Please read the content from the URLs included below. I think the links are in chronological order, but don't guarantee it.
The spark:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
Bryan:
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
Dave (me!):
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/qna/Detail. ... rd=azelaic
Dave
The Gardener
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 25
I've read the citations above, and frankly I don't think Dr Lee is upselling anything. He quotes what he knows, admits where clinical trials have or have not been done, and does not seem to be one to avoid discussions of truth.
I once sent him an email asking him about Azelaic Acid and it's efficacy as an anti-androgen, and he freely admitted to me that spironolactone is, on paper, a much better anti-androgen even though his trademark product contains the inferior ingredient.
Your citations hammer away at Azelaic Acid, but you fail to mention that he has done far more for hairloss sufferers than just combine A Acid with minoxidil. His standard, non-Azelaic Acid formulations that dry faster than standard Rogaine have immensely helped male pattern baldness sufferers apply the most clinically effective hairloss treatment when greasiness cannont be tolerated for cosmetic reasons. This is a breakthrough, in my opinion, and I am glad that there are physicians out there who look out for Minoxidil users and understand the problems of Minoxidil use from a lifestyle perspecive like he has when deriving his #500 standard minoxidil.
Just because you disagree with his claims about Azelaic Acid does not mean that he is illegitimate on the whole.
I once sent him an email asking him about Azelaic Acid and it's efficacy as an anti-androgen, and he freely admitted to me that spironolactone is, on paper, a much better anti-androgen even though his trademark product contains the inferior ingredient.
Your citations hammer away at Azelaic Acid, but you fail to mention that he has done far more for hairloss sufferers than just combine A Acid with minoxidil. His standard, non-Azelaic Acid formulations that dry faster than standard Rogaine have immensely helped male pattern baldness sufferers apply the most clinically effective hairloss treatment when greasiness cannont be tolerated for cosmetic reasons. This is a breakthrough, in my opinion, and I am glad that there are physicians out there who look out for Minoxidil users and understand the problems of Minoxidil use from a lifestyle perspecive like he has when deriving his #500 standard minoxidil.
Just because you disagree with his claims about Azelaic Acid does not mean that he is illegitimate on the whole.
- Reaction score
- 42
The Gardener said:
Not in the case of the central issue of those discussions, which was whether or not there is any in vivo evidence for topical azelaic acid being a 5a-reductase inhibitor. He never did acknowledge that there was no such evidence, and in fact he tried to suggest that there was such evidence.
If he had been upfront and straight about it from the beginning, he and Dave and I would never even have had any unpleasantness among us at all. For example, all he had to say was something like this: "Yes, Bryan, you are correct about the lack of studies, but I have seen the effectiveness of topical azelaic acid in my clinical experience. I believe it to be an effective addition to topical minoxidil." If he had said something as simple as that, I would have cut him a great deal of slack! But it's his evasiveness on that one simple point which was very troubling to me and Dave.
Having said all that, I don't wish to appear to be bashing Dr. Lee. I think he's made a good contribution to the cause with his cosmetically-improved versions of topical minoxidil. But in my humble opinion, he hurt the cause a little with his stubbornness over that one simple issue with azelaic acid which never even should have been an "issue" in the first place. He made it into one.
Bryan
The Gardener
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 25
I hear you, Bryan. Good point, and I agree that he needs to stand behind any claims he may make.
Just read it. Good stuff, guys!
I gotta admit, I get frustrated with Dr. Lee and "Gay" Dr. Pickart sometimes. If their products really work, then why not do some serious double-blind testing? I know money is a factor, but again, if the products do what they claim, I'm sure if their findings were presented to the right people they would find someone to back the studies financially.
Stop refering me to a vague Boston University study about emu oil rejuvenating 80% of dormant hair follicles, or whatever. Stop saying, "but I've seen success with thousands of patients". Prove it, damnit!
*sigh* I'm gonna go jerk off now.
I gotta admit, I get frustrated with Dr. Lee and "Gay" Dr. Pickart sometimes. If their products really work, then why not do some serious double-blind testing? I know money is a factor, but again, if the products do what they claim, I'm sure if their findings were presented to the right people they would find someone to back the studies financially.
Stop refering me to a vague Boston University study about emu oil rejuvenating 80% of dormant hair follicles, or whatever. Stop saying, "but I've seen success with thousands of patients". Prove it, damnit!
*sigh* I'm gonna go jerk off now.