Dr. Lee CHANGED his mind about topical finasteride?

JWM

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We all know Dr. Lee is now promoting topical finasteride in his products.

However in going through some old posts recently, I noticed a post from KielMck from 2007 where he posted a reply from Dr. Lee about whether or not it was worth it to crush Proscar pills into his liquid minoxidil.

Dr. Lee went on to say it would be a waste of time and basically trashed topical finasteride, stating and citing several reasons supporting his opinion in the process.

I wonder why he had a sudden change of heart??
 

Cassin

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Good question.

I bought 1 bottle of the 6% minoxidil version for the hell of it with my last order.


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Minoxidil 6% Plus - FAQs

Q. What is 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. 6% Minoxidil-Plus is an exclusive Regrowth medication for the treatment of alopecia androgenetica (male pattern baldness), containing 6% minoxidil and 0.1% finasteride by weight. 6% Minoxidil-Plus is available in 65mL bottles. Each mL of 6% Minoxidil-Plus contains 60mg of minoxidil and 1mg finasteride.

Q. Why is 6% Minoxidil-Plus so highly recommended?

A. This is an economically priced hair growth product that contains a combination of the only two medications approved by the U.S. FDA for the treatment of male pattern baldness. 6% Minoxidil-Plus is a clear, light amber colored, extremely stable solution, containing 6% minoxidil and 0.1% finasteride that has a proven efficacy in the treatment of male pattern baldness.

Q. Since finasteride inhibits only the Type 2 5-alpha reductase, how do you know that the serum DHT is decreased with the use of topical finasteride?

A. Independent studies from other researchers (e.g. Rushton and Ramsay in an article in the British Journal of Medicine) have shown that topical finasteride lowers the serum DHT by inhibiting its synthesis in the prostate. "A 0.05% formulation of topical finasteride was well absorbed and lowered the serum dihydrotestosterone concentration by up to 40%".

Q. Should 6% Minoxidil-Plus be used by patients who are or who are not taking oral finasteride?

A. 6% Minoxidil-Plus can be used as the sole treatment for treating male pattern baldness or as a supplement to patients who are already using the oral finasteride, as oral finasteride 1mg/daily lowers the amount of DHT in the scalp by only 38% (Roger S. Rittmaster, M.D. at the American Academy of Dermatology (AAD) meeting in San Francisco, March 2000).

Q. Are there any special precautions relating to the 65mL bottles of 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. Because of the volatility of the ethyl alcohol, the bottle should be tightly capped when the solution is not being used. The solution is extremely stable within a wide range of temperatures and has been tested to be unaffected in the range of 10o to 200o Fahrenheit (-12o to 93o Centigrade) for short exposures. 6% Minoxidil-Plus is best kept at room temperatures.
PHARMACOLOGY



Q. How well are the active ingredients of 6% Minoxidil-Plus absorbed into the dermis of the scalp?

A. Ethyl alcohol is one of the few substances that freely permeates the skin (the permeability coefficient of ethanol across human skin in 8 x 10 –8 mol/cm2) and it carries the minoxidil and finasteride in with it. The penetration enhancing effects of ethanol play a significant role in minoxidil absorption. The effective absorption of topical minoxidil and finasteride depends on the vehicle composition. Greater effects are achieved when the fraction of the volatile component increases, especially at ethanol concentrations higher than 50% (and maximizing at 90%).

Q. Does 6% Minoxidil-Plus leave any kind of residual on the scalp when it dries?

A. Yes, but very little. The non-greasy formula allows for twice/day application without untoward cosmetic results. The finasteride is completely absorbed. This residual reservoir of minoxidil provides a beneficial source for the continued absorption of minoxidil even after the 6% Minoxidil-Plus has dried on the scalp.
FORMULATION


Q. How much of the base of 6% Minoxidil-Plus is ethyl alcohol?

A. The base solution consists of 50% ethyl alcohol and 20% propylene glycol with a trace of phosphoric acid.

Q. Does 6% Minoxidil-Plus have a ‘greasy’ feel?

A. The base is 50% ethyl alcohol, so the 6% Minoxidil-Plus solution absorbs fairly quickly.
Q. Why wasn’t retinoic acid added to 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. Retinoic acid was an important additional ingredient, when minoxidil solutions only contained 2% minoxidil (Rogaine). With higher concentration minoxidil solutions, there is no need for retinoic acid, which can have more drawbacks than benefits. Retinoic acid acts as a chemical peel and can cause drying, scaling, redness and irritation of the scalp. Moreover, chronic use of retinoic acid makes the skin more sensitive to sun damage.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE



Q. How is 6% Minoxidil-Plus applied to the scalp?




1. 1mL of 6% Minoxidil-Plus should be applied to the scalp twice daily, preferably at least 8 hours apart. Each bottle of 6% Minoxidil-Plus is accompanied with a calibrated 1mL medicine dropper that allows the patient to conveniently apply 1mL of 6% Minoxidil-Plus solution onto the scalp. Dropper: Place the tip of the dropper onto the scalp and squeeze the rubber bulb to release a small amount of 6% Minoxidil-Plus. Divide the total 1mL quantity into as many doses as are required to moisten/wet the scalp in all the areas affected by male pattern baldness. The fingertips can be used to spread the liquid within the desired areas or to restrict the spread to other areas. Wash hands thereafter.



Q. Is there an alternative method of application other than using a dropper?

A. Regrowth offers a 2oz. plastic bottle with a custom fitted dauber applicator with protective overcap. 6% Minoxidil-Plus can be transferred to the applicator bottle and dispensed by simply inverting the dauber and gliding it across the scalp. It has been established that four side-to-side passes over the scalp dispenses approximately 1 mL of solution. This is, by far, the most convenient way to apply topical minoxidil solutions. Although the amount being dispensed cannot be precisely calibrated, if only enough liquid is applied to moisten the affected areas, there is minimal chance of utilizing excessive amounts of 6% Minoxidil-Plus.

Q. Should the scalp be dry or wet when 6% Minoxidil-Plus is applied?

A. The scalp can be dry or hydrated, but the scalp should not be wet to the degree of diluting or washing off the minoxidil/azelaic acid/finasteride.

Q. How soon after applying 6% Minoxidil-Plus can one shower or shampoo?

A. For optimal absorption of the minoxidil and finasteride, allow 1½ to 2 hours. The high concentration of ethyl alcohol in the base allows for rapid absorption of the minoxidil and finasteride.

Q. Will wetting the hair for styling purposes affect the efficacy of 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. No, assuming you are not going to get the scalp so wet that you will wash off the 6% Minoxidil-Plus.

Q. Will blow-drying the hair affect the efficacy of 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. It would be advisable to blow-dry the hair before the application of 6% Minoxidil-Plus. Otherwise, blow-drying will cause most of the alcohol in the 6% Minoxidil-Plus to evaporate, preventing absorption of the medicines.

Q. What do I do if a precipitate forms in my bottle of 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. Since the 6% Minoxidil-Plus is a saturated solution of minoxidil, there may be rare occasions when a precipitate will form in the bottle. If and when this happens, the capped bottle of 6% Minoxidil-Plus should be placed in water that has been heated to gently simmering temperatures and shaken vigorously. As long as the bottle of 6% Minoxidil-Plus is kept tightly capped, it can be kept in the heated water for prolonged periods, until all the minoxidil goes back into solution.



USE WITH OTHER PRODUCTS

Q. Can 6% Minoxidil-Plus be used in conjunction with Xandrox15-Plus?

A. Yes. Apply 1mL of 6% Minoxidil-Plus in the morning and 1mL of Xandrox15-Plus at least 8 hours later.



Q. Should one use the 5% Spironolactone Lotion in conjunction with 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. For most patients, it shouldn’t be necessary. The finasteride in 6% Minoxidil-Plus should provide adequate reduction of DHT in the scalp. However, there would be no contraindication with concomitant use of spironolactone.

Q. Should one use 6% Minoxidil-Plus, if he is already taking oral finasteride?

A. There is no contraindication to doing so. Oral finasteride 1mg/daily lowers the amount of DHT in the scalp by only 38%. The use of finasteride will lower the scalp DHT even further.

Q. Should a patient initiate treatment for male pattern baldness with 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. Yes. It’s the single best medication for treating male pattern baldness. If after six months of treatment with this regimen, the improvement is not satisfactory, then the patient may want to consider the use of Xandrox15-PLUS at night on those areas of the scalp with inadequate regrowth of hair.
SIDE EFFECTS AND CONTRAINDICATIONS


Q. What is the margin of safety from having systemic effects due to minoxidil when dosing with 6% Minoxidil-Plus daily?

A. Minoxidil requires a serum concentration of 20 ng/mL to have any hemodynamic or other systemic effect in the human body. Allowing for the average 1.4% absorption (range 0.3 - 4.5%) of minoxidil from the topical application of 1 mL of 6% Minoxidil-Plus, there will be a serum concentration of minoxidil of ~4 ng / mL of minoxidil in the serum. So, there is an estimated 10-fold safety margin from any systemic effects of minoxidil due to the use of 6% Minoxidil-Plus, when it is used once/day as recommended. For optimal results, it is suggested that topical minoxidil be applied twice/day.

Q. What are the systemic effects and possible side effects of minoxidil use?

A. Oral minoxidil is used as a medication to lower the blood pressure, so the most common systemic effects are tachycardia (increased heart rate) and orthostatic hypotension (dizziness on standing). Other side effects may include fluid retention,
chest pain and facial edema. There have been rare reports of pericardial effusion (fluid collection around the heart) with the use of oral minoxidil.

Q. Wouldn’t the amount of alcohol used in 6% Minoxidil-Plus be harmful?

A. Not at all. At most, 2mL of 6% Minoxidil-Plus would be applied daily. The percutaneous absorption from a 50% ethyl alcohol solution would be less than 50mg. By comparison, this is the amount of alcohol in less than 1 mL of wine (10% alcohol by volume). Skin exposure is not a safety concern.

Q. What should a patient do, if he or she experiences any of the systemic side effects of minoxidil?

A. The patient should immediately cease using all topical solutions, which contain minoxidil. Side effects should abate within days. Report your side effects immediately to Regrowth (RichardLeeMD@earthlink.net). Following cessation of the topical application of minoxidil, approximately 95% of systemically absorbed minoxidil is eliminated within four days.

Q. Are there patients who should avoid using 6% Minoxidil-Plus?

A. Yes. Patients with any history of heart disease should not use 6% Minoxidil-Plus. Also patients who have a known adverse reaction to minoxidil or finasteride should avoid using 6% Minoxidil-Plus.
 

rcom440

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JWM said:
We all know Dr. Lee is now promoting topical finasteride in his products.

However in going through some old posts recently, I noticed a post from KielMck from 2007 where he posted a reply from Dr. Lee about whether or not it was worth it to crush Proscar pills into his liquid minoxidil.

Dr. Lee went on to say it would be a waste of time and basically trashed topical finasteride, stating and citing several reasons supporting his opinion in the process.

I wonder why he had a sudden change of heart??

would you be able to find that post and give us a little more details of what exactly Dr. Lee said? Maybe you could copy that post here?
 

JWM

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Copy and paste of post.

Kiel,
It is a waste of your time and money. No. I would have a lot of doubt in regards to the mixture's efficacy for treating male pattern baldness, considering that there have not been any significant references to topical finasteride's use. If topical finasteride did have positive results for male pattern baldness, I would have expected that after 10+ years, the medical community would advocate the use of topical finasteride.
One of the reasons there may be no enthusiasm in the medical community is that finasteride is almost exclusively a type 2 5AR inhibitor. In the scalp, there is predominantly type 1 5AR.

You'd be interested in knowing that Merck submitted a patent application for topical finasteride
(http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Par ... 0020042425)

in December 2001. The patent has not been granted, and I'm not aware of any scientific studies that confirms the benefits of topical finasteride for the treatment of male pattern baldness.

Richard Lee, M.D.
 

beaner

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Cassin said:
JWM...email him. He'll respond pretty quick.

For some reason I think the good Doctor isn't going to respond to that question, especially if those statements by him are included. There is absolutely no way he can explain his way out of this one. The real answer lies in the $$$$$$$.
 

rcom440

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Dr. Lee sells good products backed on his research. I don't believe he would be selling something which he doesn't believe works.
Same with Dr. Pickart
 

Bryan

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Cassin said:
(Quoting from Dr. Lee's Web site)

Minoxidil 6% Plus - FAQs

Q. Why is 6% Minoxidil-Plus so highly recommended?

A. This is an economically priced hair growth product that contains a combination of the only two medications approved by the U.S. FDA for the treatment of male pattern baldness. 6% Minoxidil-Plus is a clear, light amber colored, extremely stable solution, containing 6% minoxidil and 0.1% finasteride that has a proven efficacy in the treatment of male pattern baldness.

Q. Since finasteride inhibits only the Type 2 5-alpha reductase, how do you know that the serum DHT is decreased with the use of topical finasteride?

A. Independent studies from other researchers (e.g. Rushton and Ramsay in an article in the British Journal of Medicine) have shown that topical finasteride lowers the serum DHT by inhibiting its synthesis in the prostate. "A 0.05% formulation of topical finasteride was well absorbed and lowered the serum dihydrotestosterone concentration by up to 40%".

Dr. Lee doesn't have the cajones to admit or volunteer the truth about that study in his FAQ, so here is my contribution. I'm formulating some more questions (and answers) that _should_ have been included in that same FAQ above:

Q. So did the topical finasteride help hair growth in that Rushton/Ramsay study?

A. No. Hair counts actually went DOWN slightly during the course of that study. Rushton and Ramsay considered the study with topical finasteride to be a failure.

Q. So why are you selling this product, Dr. Lee?

A. To make lots of money! :)
 

JWM

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Gotta agree with Beaner and Bryan here. I don't think any reply from Dr. Lee will be too terribly compelling. As much as I like Dr. Lee and respect him for his lengthy replies to those that email him, in this case I think it might have to do with good old $$$$
 

Petchsky

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He could have changed his mind again based on some new research, or based on a small study conducted by himself....

I think it's best to fire an email off to him, but make sure the email is not an assertion that he's a liar in it for the money.

I think it's possible that Dr Lee was getting a lot of emails like that from Kielmick and saw that there was a demand for it. I'm sure that the good doctor knows that topical finasteride only works if it goes systemic, which goes against why most people wanted to use topical finasteride in the first place.
 

Bryan

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I hate to beat a dead horse (I consider Dr. Lee to be a dead horse), but I simply don't trust the guy very much. If he had stopped while he was ahead with his signature product (#500, the less-greasy 5% minoxidil which so many people like to use), I would have felt a lot better about him. But his excursions into those other versions with extra-high percentages of minoxidil made me start to wonder about him; then he crossed a HUGE line in the sand when he got off on his topical azelaic acid kick (Xandrox). That didn't go over well with me AT ALL, and I told him so. He finally complained to Farrel on HLH that he didn't have the time to argue about it with me, so I had to promise Farrel that I would drop the subject. But my honest opinion is that Dr. Lee couldn't take an honest examination of the lack of evidence for azelaic acid, which is why I think he bailed out of the discussion.

Now he comes along with a nice new topical finasteride product, and has the chutzpah to cite a medical study which was actually considered to be a FAILURE by the doctors who performed it. Does Dr. Lee think that none of the rest of us actually bother to READ medical journal studies? Has Dr. Lee forgotten about his past encounter with yours truly, Bryan Shelton? :)

If he had stopped with his nice, pleasant version of 5% minoxidil and not pursued those various other smarmy, highly questionable products, I wouldn't be having these issues with him. But as it stands now, I trust the guy about as far as I can throw him.
 

Cassin

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JWM said:
Why the :woot: Fedor?

I just love the way Bryan disagrees with people when he has them on the ropes. He has a way of kicking someone in the balls with a smile.

And as for the 6% version....would I use it alone as a treatment? No...can it help when you're using other products including oral finasteride? Yeah so why not.

I just bought 1 bottle to try it...I might buy more. I only use Minoxidil once a day so bottles of minoxidil lasts me 2 months.
 

Shma

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Bryan, it's nice to see a critical, constructive post of yours again. In the past few weeks all I saw was "Are you british?"-posts and spelling corrections. :shakehead:

Cassin, correct me If I'm wrong, but as far as I can remember (I didn't read the whole FAQ now) Dr. Lee pointed out that he added finasteride to the minoxidil to reduce serum DHT, not to do anything on the scalp?
 

Cassin

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Shma said:
Cassin, correct me If I'm wrong, but as far as I can remember (I didn't read the whole FAQ now) Dr. Lee pointed out that he added finasteride to the minoxidil to reduce serum DHT, not to do anything on the scalp?

I'm not 100% either but I believe that's correct now that you mention it,
 

Fender89

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Ok err before you go slagging him, i think he is really honourable.

Before i was getting sides with finasteride, i sent him pics of my hairloss and he suggested I switched down to the 6% version and only use it once per day but then i eventually got sides on 15% plus so i guess i can't use 6% either.

He said "it can save you money". Which yes the 6% is alot cheaper than 15% plus.

I'm just using spectral DNC at the moment + some shampoos. seems to be doing the trick for now

Oh and bryan, why don't you go release a hairloss product since you've done so so much research on the topic.
 
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