I have frequently been hearing things about while using finasteride your testosterone levels increas and also testosterone decreasing. What is the truth about this. The explanation that I got from the increase, is that while the conversion of testosterone to dht inhibition of the dht will cause an increase in testosterone production. Is there any thoughts on this
Does finasteride raise testosterone levels
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Since no one has answered or made a comment on this topic I did some research and ended up going on about 40 cites, seriously, I was on a mission.
What I found in about 15 of them was one commonality. All of the studies were done on older men between 40 to 70 and two things occured, by 2 years bone mass increased as well as testosterone inceased 10%. So all you fuckheads that come on this site with a whiney attitude about, "I just don't know about taking finasteride, I'm scared of the sides, this is a powerful drug and who knows what it will do." Well several things are certain. In several broad studies less than 2 percent of people had a decrease in labido, AND PARTIAL WAS PLACIBO. Prostate decreased in size resulting in a more healthy prostate. Most of the folks on here b**ch about sexual fucntion and I believe that is the placibo affect in full force. The mind is a very powerful thing.
This was also oddly interesting, nearly all of them reported an increase in grip strength. Strange hu.
What I found in about 15 of them was one commonality. All of the studies were done on older men between 40 to 70 and two things occured, by 2 years bone mass increased as well as testosterone inceased 10%. So all you fuckheads that come on this site with a whiney attitude about, "I just don't know about taking finasteride, I'm scared of the sides, this is a powerful drug and who knows what it will do." Well several things are certain. In several broad studies less than 2 percent of people had a decrease in labido, AND PARTIAL WAS PLACIBO. Prostate decreased in size resulting in a more healthy prostate. Most of the folks on here b**ch about sexual fucntion and I believe that is the placibo affect in full force. The mind is a very powerful thing.
This was also oddly interesting, nearly all of them reported an increase in grip strength. Strange hu.
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johnboy said:
I agree. I think the side effects are close non-existent, is all about strength of mind.
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The Rock said:
I can smell what The Rock is cooking..............pies
juststarting
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Hey, The Rock. While you are kidding, i think there is some truth in what you are saying regarding the sexual sides. I sometimes wonder how many of the men complaining aren't exactly "manly men", are are just little whiners looking for any excuse as to why they stink in bed. Just my $0.02 and I of course acknowledge that some people have legitimate sides.
juststarting
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oni said:
You said it. Seriously, the Merck studies showed like 3% with sex sides versus 1.8% on placebo with sex sides!!!
juststarting said:
Dr Lee:
"I have never agreed with Merck's report of the incidence of side effects due to initial Propecia use. My experience with finasteride is that the percentage of patients with side effects of decreased libido, erectile dysfunction and/or ejaculatory disorder is approximately 5 or 6 times higher than the 3.8% that Merck reports. Initially, Merck claimed that the incidence of side effects was less than 2%. Since assessing 'decreased libido' is of such a subjective nature, I have repeatedly asked for a copy of Merck's original clinical trials. On each occasion, I've been denied a copy of that study. It is not surprising that the incidence of side effects declined dramatically in the fifth year of use. Patients who did have sexual side effects simply wouldn't tolerate those side effects for five years. With this in mind, the report of 0.6% of Propecia users having sexual side effects after five years of use sounds incorrect and misleading.
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/html/Propecia5yrstudy.cfm
I find it unbelievable that some of you guys who have only been on propecia a few months can act all brave because you haven't suffered tangible sides yet and pronouce that those guys who have are girly men.
sh*t, have you guys just left nursery school? Grow up.
I've been on finasteride about 7 months - going great, however I wouldn't be stupid enough to cast dispersions on the state of mind of guys who have suffered sides because I for one am not a physician and therefore wouldn't make that judgment. You guys can't judge the validity of someone else's experience so don't attempt to do so.
Have an open mind and realise that people who complain about sides are going to be more vocal on a forum such as this compared to those who are getting on nicely with their regimen. Its fairly obvious really.
juststarting
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Sorry, but one doctor's subjective experience is not what I call clinical proof that Merck is incorrect in their peer reviewed studies. It is a VERY common story, and frequently proven in the literature, that doctors give WRONG estimates when based upon their "own findings/observations" when compared to *real* peer reviewed studies. I took a class in Clinical Statistics during my PhD, and this was frequently called out how doctors just make up these numbers from "their experience" and how they are almost always WRONG. Remember, MDs are trained as "body repairmen", and not as scientists -- unless they go into the research field etc and get after MD training or also get a PhD.
I would be happy (and eager!
) to read any study that you can provide that shows sides are more prevalent, but otherwise a single doctor's experience is NOT AT ALL clinical proof. Remember, his personal study population is probably VERY SKEWED with people coming to him for help because of the sides in the first place -- which, btw, is exactly the same cause you say yourself for this forum being a place people with problems will go.
Lastly, I think the point of this chain is that the people here complaining about sides are the minority in the overall population on finasteride. We are actually agreeing with what you say in your last paragraph (albeit in in a slightly different and less nice wording).
I would be happy (and eager!
) to read any study that you can provide that shows sides are more prevalent, but otherwise a single doctor's experience is NOT AT ALL clinical proof. Remember, his personal study population is probably VERY SKEWED with people coming to him for help because of the sides in the first place -- which, btw, is exactly the same cause you say yourself for this forum being a place people with problems will go.Lastly, I think the point of this chain is that the people here complaining about sides are the minority in the overall population on finasteride. We are actually agreeing with what you say in your last paragraph (albeit in in a slightly different and less nice wording).
Red Rose said:
I was playing devils advocate. Can you show me where I actually said I agree with Dr Lee?
The point of my post is this and it is directed to you.
Stop acting like a child and making the most immature of inferences about the masculinity of a man because he thinks he has sides.
Grow up.
The point of my post is this and it is directed to you.
Stop acting like a child and making the most immature of inferences about the masculinity of a man because he thinks he has sides.
Grow up.
juststarting
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Red Rose said:
Funny, you continue to strike out at people personally in your posts. This is the 2nd time during a discussion you resort to simple basic insults rather then the topic at hand. As I review your other postings, I see similar inflamatory responses to others.
This is also directed to you. I hardly made the rather blunt statements in this thread. So you obviously have a burr up your *** (or to use a metaphor in this thread, "have a hard on" lol) for me to pick me out of this chain. I have repeatedly refuted your incorrect postings with real sold questions that you can't or won't discuss. And subsequently, you have always resorted to rather immature responses -- ironic, since you tell me to grow up.
Finally, if you were not agreeing with Dr. Lee, then I find it amusing that you went to the trouble to post a quote from his site. Now, for the second time, rather then having a nice discussion on a topic, I am done with you on a thread. Bye.
juststarting said:
What is this kid going on about now?
Here you are juststarting. I believe that you are the author of the above quotation. Now what do I think to myself when I read that. I genuinely think to myself that this guy has just come out of school (immature). *If* you are only 18 then I guess I should cut you some slack.
Right the other point I believe you made was that spironolactone, Revivogen and Cu peptides were snake oils. I simply replied that you were making yourself look stupid by making an unsubstantiated comment like that, as I'm sure everyone else here would agree.
If you want to bump that thread up by all means do but try educating yourself first with the search facility here and the FAQ's, ok?