Do we think it's possible to turn this gene off again? :(

[Hoppi]

Man I didn't realize this aspect of it, it's really gotten me down

So really, we think a certain gene gets turned on at some point by some kind of stimulus (be that age, hormone levels, dietary deficiencies etc) and after that there's no turning back?

Ugh that's made me feel so low, I didn't realize it was like that I didn't realize something had fundamentally CHANGED inside me

Man I feel terrible. I'm sorry to start another thread but I just needed to talk and to let this out. I really hope it wasn't stress as otherwise what have I done to myself

And please don't lay into me or try to express any kind of even "tough love" because I am sick of it I just want people to be nice, please

Ugh why bother :'(


Mike


EDIT -- I think the only way I can feel better about this is to think well its done now I cant change it, and its as much a part of me as anything else, its in my code So, do we know what specifically this gene does? Increase 5ar in the follicles or sensitivity to dht?

 

[dpdr]

Yes, when leave the gene therapy

 

[Hoppi]

Yes, when leave the gene therapy

True, it cant be done yet for this though can it?

Also, I was also talking about if any stimuli could turn the gene off just like something turned the gene on. Could these triggers for on and off differ from person to person?

 

[baller234]

Man I didn't realize this aspect of it, it's really gotten me down

So really, we think a certain gene gets turned on at some point by some kind of stimulus (be that age, hormone levels, dietary deficiencies etc) and after that there's no turning back?

Yes x amount of androgen exposure over x amount of time (this varies from person to person due to genetics) will cause hair follicles to become "sensitive" to androgens.

Ugh that's made me feel so low, I didn't realize it was like that I didn't realize something had fundamentally CHANGED inside me

No not in you just your hair follicles. I believe that this phenomenon happens individually in each hair follicle. Hence one can have a receding hairline with minaturized hair follicles in the front while the rest of the hair on the scalp is healthy (these hairs have yet to become "sensitive" to androgens).

Man I feel terrible. I'm sorry to start another thread but I just needed to talk and to let this out. I really hope it wasn't stress as otherwise what have I done to myself

And please don't lay into me or try to express any kind of even "tough love" because I am sick of it I just want people to be nice, please

Ugh why bother :'(


Mike


EDIT -- I think the only way I can feel better about this is to think well its done now I cant change it, and its as much a part of me as anything else, its in my code So, do we know what specifically this gene does? Increase 5ar in the follicles or sensitivity to dht?

Well there's more than just one gene that causes Androgenetic Alopecia. I don't know the exact biochemistry behind it but basically the hair follicles undergo a change (becoming sensitive) so that when androgens are bound to the receptors they exhibit negative growth factors.

Don't get too depressed about it. Estrogen will completely halt the process and provide substantial regrowth (just look at male to female transgenders). IMO, a potent topical estrogen that didn't absorb systemically would cure Androgenetic Alopecia.

Here are some rather promising topicals that should come out in the next few years (hopefuly).

ASC-J9 an androgen receptor degrader
http://www.androscience.com/dermatology ... p#Alopecia

CB-03-01 topical anti-androgen that's suppose to be comparable to RU58441
http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/csm ... peline/cb/

HYG-102440 topical anti-androgen and estrogen that has no systemic absorbtion
http://hygeiatherapeutics.com/Pipeline.html

 

[Fender89]

hey man!

can totally relate. I'm still really young, started losing my hair at 19, 20 now. it sucks. I used to have REALLY thick hair, which i took for granted :/ now it's getting thinner and thinner. So sad. it's still not too noticable to others i hope, thanks to it starting off so thick but it will probably get there eventually.

Anyway, this might be no consolation, but just think, it could be alot worse man. We have it easy compared to alot of other people. there are some "real" problems we could have, trust me..

 

[Hoppi]

Ok, a combination of things has now made me feel a bit better about this! heh

Baller, you made me feel better because that's cool and really good that it quite possibly does affect things follicle-by-follicle, and this would make perfect sense judging by what we tend to see in the world around us. And if it is just androgen exposure, then I don't know I mean I have suspected my Testosterone levels of being high in the past, and even if I did accidentally make things a little harder for my body, it really was purely accidental, and I guess it's just the way it is I need to live with the fact that I am a guy and this was always a risk

Also, thank you for the list of possible future treatments that's simply fantastic and that's made me feel much better too!

Then Fender, thank you too because yes it's always comforting to know you're not alone, even if it's something that you ideally wish didn't affect anybody at all!

And I got a reply for misterE as I PM'd him and he really helped too, explaining why of course diet will still balance my hormones more and basically make it easier for my hair follicles to cope, largely regardless of their sensitivity (within reason of course but I doubt they are beyond hope!), and of course I shall be taking both a standard, reasonably powerful DHT-reducing oral treatment such as beta-Sitosterol (the more natural one that occurs in Saw Palmetto, but I'm sure many people know about it), Finasteride or Dutasteride.

I think I just need to accept that I'm a guy and stress and diet aside, many, MANY males (and even females but this is not as common) get hair loss this young. I'm just lucky I caught it very early and with all the right pointers and real focus and positivity, I really think I can do this

I love my hair so much it's so important to me, and I will do nearly anything to keep it


Hoppi

 

[dpdr]

Currently you can try the RU58841, because the drug is more potent

 

[Hoppi]

Currently you can try the RU58841, because the drug is more potent

It's definitely in my mind, particularly when it drops in price

I have all my options open!

 

[LewdBear]

I have suspected my Testosterone levels of being high in the past, and even if I did accidentally make things a little harder for my body, it really was purely accidental,

And I got a reply for misterE as I PM'd him and he really helped too, explaining why of course diet will still balance my hormones more

What exactly does it mean to "balance" hormones? Do you think this term has any scientific meaning?

What led you suspect you had high testosterone? What if it's not high?

How will you know when your hormones are 'balanced' if you don't have any lab measurements to begin with?

 

[let-it-grow]

Currently you can try the RU58841, because the drug is more potent

It's definitely in my mind, particularly when it drops in price

I have all my options open!

What makes you think that it would drop in price? Also, that's not very expensive, per gram it is, but from what I understood every gram lasts for a very long time.

 

[Hoppi]

I have suspected my Testosterone levels of being high in the past, and even if I did accidentally make things a little harder for my body, it really was purely accidental,

And I got a reply for misterE as I PM'd him and he really helped too, explaining why of course diet will still balance my hormones more

What exactly does it mean to "balance" hormones? Do you think this term has any scientific meaning?

What led you suspect you had high testosterone? What if it's not high?

How will you know when your hormones are 'balanced' if you don't have any lab measurements to begin with?

Well, somehow I doubt sitting on my *** all day, pent up with tension and anxiety and eating carbs, sugar and other junk is likely to do my hormonal levels or nutrient levels much good! hehe

I must change my evil ways! lol

Currently you can try the RU58841, because the drug is more potent

It's definitely in my mind, particularly when it drops in price

I have all my options open!

What makes you think that it would drop in price? Also, that's not very expensive, per gram it is, but from what I understood every gram lasts for a very long time.

Well, most things do come down in price if they are in high enough demand, due to the scale of the production of them. For something as effective (from what I've heard) as RU58841, I would be amazed if interest in it didn't increase and so stimulate more production. The only reason I can think of for this NOT happening are if something better comes along.

Even if the production process is unbelievably expensive and complicated, scale still usually equals lower cost for the consumer

 

[AlexD]

Is that drug even available for general consumption? I thought its longterm effects were still unknown?

 

[Hoppi]

Is that drug even available for general consumption? I thought its longterm effects were still unknown?

I believe it's topical, it binds to the androgen receptors, much like Ketaconazole is theorized to do (in addition to it's inhibition of 5-alpha reductase). And yeah the side effects are unknown! Eep!

(that doesn't effect me though anyway as it's too expensive lol)

 

[AlexD]

Does it actually work very well? I'd imagine if there was no systemic absorption, then it would be fine. But is it designed that it might have any effect on the androgen receptors of certain other areas? Because THAT would be a problem - it would be like permanent sides on finasteride

 

[Hoppi]

Does it actually work very well? I'd imagine if there was no systemic absorption, then it would be fine. But is it designed that it might have any effect on the androgen receptors of certain other areas? Because THAT would be a problem - it would be like permanent sides on finasteride

well, for now I think Ket pretty much fills the gap, but in the future that other one might be more readily available

If you have the cash it could be worth a purchase, but no it hasn't been tested through and through I wouldn't imagine.

 

[let-it-grow]

RU58841 works very well and it's topical so when you apply it on your scalp it blocks the DHT on your scalp only. And there is no systematic absorption like with spironolactone and that's why people who uses RU58841 don't get side effects.

I don't think that RU58841 would ever be available since they stopped researching it a very long time ago and it seems that they just forgot about it.

Anyway, maybe CB-03-01 would be just like RU58841 and it would be available soon and then we could all just stop Finasteride and apply this topical CB-03-01 that would block the DHT in the scalp (more than oral finasteride) and cause no side effects at all. Let's hope it works.

 

[mykal_P]

RU58841 works very well and it's topical so when you apply it on your scalp it blocks the DHT on your scalp only. And there is no systematic absorption like with spironolactone and that's why people who uses RU58841 don't get side effects.

I don't think that RU58841 would ever be available since they stopped researching it a very long time ago and it seems that they just forgot about it.

No one knows the side effects of long term RU use, theres no research behind it yet. You newbies need to use the search button and read. RU threads and info have been discussed on here a trillion times with every bit of possible knowledge on its many aspects as well as people using it presently and their feedback.

 

[AlexD]

Fair enough, I would research it, but if it is as good as it sounds, why haven't more people heard of it? Dutasteride has unknown long term side effects, yet people use that...

 

[let-it-grow]

Also Finasteride has no known long term side effects and still Propecia is FDA approved for hair loss. In 30 years they could discover that it increases in 1000% the chance of Alzheimer, we don't know it yet. The healthiest thing is to lose your hair and don't take any drug to fix it.

 

[Hoppi]

Anyway, maybe CB-03-01 would be just like RU58841 and it would be available soon and then we could all just stop Finasteride and apply this topical CB-03-01 that would block the DHT in the scalp (more than oral finasteride) and cause no side effects at all. Let's hope it works.

So, am I right in saying these things achieve this better than more current topical treatments such as Nizoral? Doesn't Nizoral both block 5ar/DHT and bind to receptors?

(I'm not saying nizoral is as good as RU58841 or CB-03-01, I'm just making the comparison )