Dissolving sebum

[Bryan]

Never trust any research that appears on a webpage with the VISA and MASTERCARD logos at the bottom of the page.

LOL!! I think that's a pretty good rule-of-thumb!

The material on that site smacks of silly, old-fashioned claims about how balding is caused by hair follicles supposedly getting "plugged-up" or whatever, so buy our special shampoo which "un-plugs" them and lets all the hair grow out, etc. Avoid such nonsense.

Bryan

 

[chewbaca]

I read somewhere that heart disease cholesterol levels and male pattern baldness have a relation. which means this link : http://www.mmtresearch.com/sebum.htm

has something fruitful to say? Bryan care to comment on my post?

 

[Old Baldy]

I read somewhere that heart disease cholesterol levels and male pattern baldness have a relation. which means this link : http://www.mmtresearch.com/sebum.htm

has something fruitful to say? Bryan care to comment on my post?

Can't answer for Bryan but I think most doctors note blood vessel health and its relation to male pattern baldness.

 

[2tone]

Thats the thing ..

Are the products bunk because Sebum issues are completely irrelevant ? or is it because the Products dont work ?

Since Testopsterone and DHT and i believe the enzymes as well are present in the sebacious Gland it seems about as sensible to rule out the direct connection as it would be to rule out links with DHt testosterone and the enzyme in any tissues .

 

[2tone]

Do you think maybe the blood supply issues are related to the thickness of the tissues in male pattern baldness areas?
It seems sensible to assume that with the follicle migrating upwards that the inertia of blood supply issues would perhaps default to a reduction of tissue depth in an attempt to keep the blood supply approximate to a important point of waste elimination on the body ..

Is it the sebum volume increase that directly mechanically effects the change in efficiency in the sweat glands ?

 

[Old Baldy]

Do you think maybe the blood supply issues are related to the thickness of the tissues in male pattern baldness areas?
It seems sensible to assume that with the follicle migrating upwards that the inertia of blood supply issues would perhaps default to a reduction of tissue depth in an attempt to keep the blood supply approximate to a important point of waste elimination on the body ..

Is it the sebum volume increase that directly mechanically effects the change in efficiency in the sweat glands ?

Once again, I can't answer for Bryan but, from all I've read, it's the immune system response that "cuts-off" the follicle from nutrients, etc. The immune system seems to "reject" the "DHT infected" follicle.

(Now why in the he** does the immune system ACCEPT the "DHT infected" follicle if it is in our EARS!!?? Fu***** insidious!)

Transplanted non-male pattern baldness follicles do fine in the balding scalp. So I wouldn't think the tissue in the balding area is incapable of growing an healthy hair.

That immune system reaction is "enough" of an explanation for me IMHO. When our immune systems reject "something" that "something" is in DEEP, DEEP trouble!! It's basically "lights out" if you know what I mean.

As to your sweat gland question. I have no idea. You're over my head on that one. Bryan????

 

[Armando Jose]

Bryan wrote:
"Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin".
I do not think so, in my opinnion also there is a inward sebum flow to the inner portion of the pilosebacouss unit.
The photographs in http://www.mmtresearch.com/sebum.htm are concluyent, sebum spreads in all directions.
My theory talks about miniaturization of hair in common baldness regarding this inward flow. Problems in sebum flow could be the first step in the multifactorial events in common baldness.
Best regards
Armando

My web:
http://www.againstalopeciaandbaldness.com

 

[Bryan]

Bryan wrote:
"Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin".
I do not think so, in my opinnion also there is a inward sebum flow to the inner portion of the pilosebacouss unit.
The photographs in http://www.mmtresearch.com/sebum.htm are concluyent, sebum spreads in all directions.
My theory talks about miniaturization of hair in common baldness regarding this inward flow. Problems in sebum flow could be the first step in the multifactorial events in common baldness.

Then why doesn't Accutane stop balding?

Bryan

 

[Britannia]

Bryan wrote:
"Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin".
I do not think so,

Are you disputing the fact that sebum contains DHT or the fact that sebum flows out of the follicle onto the skin? I believe both facts to be accurate.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan wrote:
"Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin".
I do not think so,

Are you disputing the fact that sebum contains DHT or the fact that sebum flows out of the follicle onto the skin? I believe both facts to be accurate.

I'm not disputing EITHER fact. They ARE both accurate. This is exactly what I said previously: "It seems highly doubtful to me. Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin. I would be astonished if it actually had a detectable effect on the growth of hair." Why did you think I was disputing one or the other?

Bryan

 

[2tone]

It is interesting ..

What functional purpose would there be for DHT to be stored in sebum ??

If DHT (plus testosterone and the lpha reductase enzyme) does not perfom some function via the Sebum .. them why is it stored there at all ? - just a co-incidence ??

 

[Armando Jose]

Hi guys;
What is your opinion about this study?

Sebocytes are the key regulators of androgen homeostasis in human skin
http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~zoubbere/ ... /andro.pdf

Bryan; I don't know why doesn't Accutane stop balding?, but probably the use of Accutane is only for a few weeks, not months or even years. So it is not concluyent.

Armando

 

[Britannia]

Bryan wrote:
"Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin".
I do not think so,

Are you disputing the fact that sebum contains DHT or the fact that sebum flows out of the follicle onto the skin? I believe both facts to be accurate.

I'm not disputing EITHER fact. They ARE both accurate. This is exactly what I said previously: "It seems highly doubtful to me. Sebum does contain a certain amount of DHT, but it flows out of the follicle onto the surface of the skin. I would be astonished if it actually had a detectable effect on the growth of hair." Why did you think I was disputing one or the other?

Bryan

Er Bryan, that post was aimed at Armando Jose who answered "I dont think so" to the quote from you about sebum containing DHT. I was agreeing with you!

 

[Bryan]

Er Bryan, that post was aimed at Armando Jose who answered "I dont think so" to the quote from you about sebum containing DHT. I was agreeing with you!

Oops! Sorry about that! I wish to god Armando would learn to attribute and quote properly, using the built-in devices. It wouldn't have confused me, if he'd done it properly.

Bryan

 

[chewbaca]

It is interesting ..

What functional purpose would there be for DHT to be stored in sebum ??

If DHT (plus testosterone and the lpha reductase enzyme) does not perfom some function via the Sebum .. them why is it stored there at all ? - just a co-incidence ??

The answer could be simple. DHT is just like other trace elements substances ect in your body which are found all over the place. Blood may carry substances to all parts of the body making them these universally found thoughout the body

 

[Bryan]

What functional purpose would there be for DHT to be stored in sebum ??

None whatsoever, apparently. BTW, I think it's misleading to say that DHT is "stored" in sebum. It's probably just one of the cellular components of sebocytes left over when they eventually rupture and release their oily contents into the sebaceous duct.

If DHT (plus testosterone and the lpha reductase enzyme) does not perfom some function via the Sebum .. them why is it stored there at all ? - just a co-incidence ??

Don't you know how sebum is formed? Sebocytes in the sebaceous glands grow bigger and bigger, and most of the normal cellular contents practically disappear, and are replaced with fat. They practically become sacks of fat! Eventually the cells rupture, releasing all that fat into the ducts, which slowly flows outward onto the surface of the skin. The DHT is apparently left over from the cellular contents.

Bryan

 

[2tone]

What functional purpose would there be for DHT to be stored in sebum ??

None whatsoever, apparently. BTW, I think it's misleading to say that DHT is "stored" in sebum. It's probably just one of the cellular components of sebocytes left over when they eventually rupture and release their oily contents into the sebaceous duct.

Are you saying that it is just a co-incidence that DHT is in the Sebum then ? - is the rationale that the DHT is to be eliminated or expelled from the body and doing so via the sebum gland is just a viable option that is used by the bodies metabolism .. why would the body want to eliminate steroid hormones like that ?
And further are you suggesting that when the sebum is released from the gland it retains the Steroid hormone content ? i cant imagine how the simple gland could filter the contents like that but would be very interested to follow the research that proved such a thing was possible ..

If DHT (plus testosterone and the alpha reductase enzyme) does not perfom some function via the Sebum .. them why is it stored there at all ? - just a co-incidence ??

Don't you know how sebum is formed? Sebocytes in the sebaceous glands grow bigger and bigger, and most of the normal cellular contents practically disappear, and are replaced with fat. They practically become sacks of fat! Eventually the cells rupture, releasing all that fat into the ducts, which slowly flows outward onto the surface of the skin. The DHT is apparently left over from the cellular contents.

are you saying Bryan that the sebocytes cannabalise normal cellular tissue and amongst these cells there exist DHT so that this is how the DHT gets 'into' the sebum ? and then the concentration increases because DHT is not transported out of the gland when the sebum is released ?? its not clear to me what particular mechanism you are describing , but its interesting , and no i cant say i know exactly how sebum is formed .. i assumed that the contents of Sebum were provided from selected elements of the general blood supply to the local region of the gland .. thus reflecting things like serum DHEA levels and dietary elements (fatty acids and the like) etc ..

Have you got solid reference to the alteration of Sebum Contents between male pattern baldness and normal people Bryan ? I'd like to review the comparism .. i have found a statement as to the normal content of sebum its as follows .. can you please indicate what componants change and which particular elements you are referring to as Fats ..


Components of Sebum

Fatty Acids (primarily Oleic Acid (highest content), Palmitoleic Acid (second highest content) and Linoleic Acid (third highest content): 5%
Glycerides: 50%
Waxes: 20%
Squalene: references 11%
Other Hydrocarbons: 4%
Cholesteryl esters: 4%
Cholesterol: references 1%
Other Sterols: 1%
Other Substances: 4%

 

[Bryan]

Are you saying that it is just a co-incidence that DHT is in the Sebum then ?

Depends on exactly how you define "coincidence". I guess in a certain sense it's a coincidence, but not in another.

- is the rationale that the DHT is to be eliminated or expelled from the body and doing so via the sebum gland is just a viable option that is used by the bodies metabolism .. why would the body want to eliminate steroid hormones like that ?

"Expelled via the sebum gland"? Huh?? I'm not saying that all the DHT in the body is "expelled" by way of the sebaceous glands, just the DHT that's in the sebocytes! :wink:

And further are you suggesting that when the sebum is released from the gland it retains the Steroid hormone content ? i cant imagine how the simple gland could filter the contents like that but would be very interested to follow the research that proved such a thing was possible ..

Again, you've got it all twisted around. I'm telling you that when sebocytes rupture, they release their contents (mostly fat) into the sebaceous ducts, and it all moves out onto the surface of the skin. Part of that material is also DHT that was within the cells.

...no i cant say i know exactly how sebum is formed .. i assumed that the contents of Sebum were provided from selected elements of the general blood supply to the local region of the gland .. thus reflecting things like serum DHEA levels and dietary elements (fatty acids and the like) etc ..

Actually, the origin of certain substances like fatty acids within sebocytes is not known exactly. There's some question about whether they are directly synthesized within those cells, or if they're extracted from the blood supply, or both.

Have you got solid reference to the alteration of Sebum Contents between male pattern baldness and normal people Bryan ? I'd like to review the comparism ..

I don't recall ever seeing such a comparison. There may not be any such significant difference.

i have found a statement as to the normal content of sebum its as follows .. can you please indicate what componants change and which particular elements you are referring to as Fats ..

Most of those are fats.

Bryan

 

[Solo]

In my limited knowledge of animalo biology, it´s known that many animals excrete hormones, for sexual/social purposes or whatever.

So it´s not an unthinkable, like 2tone claims.

 

[Redbone]

I had tons of Seabum buildup and oil zits on my back for over 20 years. I did some research and found that competitive body builders take :

Vitamin B5 aka Pantothenic Acid in large doses. 5-10g a day for 3 months then cut it back to about 2g a day.

Steroids greatly increase DHT prodcution causing increased sebum and zits.

I did this for three months taking about 5g a day of the powder. My back dried up nicely no more zits and I tried everything before with little results. Another thing my hair became much thicker and filled in nicely. I had serious oil problems, my hair got really greasy if I did not wash it every day and the oils on my back turned my white T shirts yellow.

Try the B5 its an excellent product that not many people on here know about and it is rated a close second to Accutane in zit treatment.