Dietary ways of reducing DHT

[powersam]

the oft repeated point though, is that if flax did indeed lower dht levels by the amounts claimed above, then you'd most likely get side effects similar to finasteride or dutasteride.

 

[hairhaircomeagain]

PowerSam...once again..read th statement

"Flax secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG) works, not lowering serum 5-alpha-reductase like Finasteride or Dutasteride, but instead bind to it. Lignans inhibit 5-alpha-reductase selectively and irreversibly binding with 5-alpha-reductase, thereby blocking conversion of testosterone to DHT. Enterolactone is found to inhibit 5-alpha-reductase up to 80%"

"does not lower" :?

 

[sublime]

So you think that drug companies like Merck and Glaxo have spent literally HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of $$$ to produce patentable drugs to inhibit 5a-reductase, when all people really had to do was eat some flax to get the same effect??

Sorry, I don't buy it. I'd give you 1000-to-1 odds against that hypothesis! :wink:

Bryan

I will be more than happy to let you part with your money. :lol:

 

[Aplunk1]

I call BULLSHIT on Flax as a decent treatment for male pattern baldness.

 

[sublime]

LOL.

That's fine Aplunk as you long as people know it is just your opinion and you do not try and state it as a verfiable fact.

 

[Bryan]

PowerSam...once again..read th statement

"Flax secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG) works, not lowering serum 5-alpha-reductase like Finasteride or Dutasteride, but instead bind to it. Lignans inhibit 5-alpha-reductase selectively and irreversibly binding with 5-alpha-reductase, thereby blocking conversion of testosterone to DHT. Enterolactone is found to inhibit 5-alpha-reductase up to 80%"

"does not lower" :?

What exactly is your point, hairhaircomeagain?

BTW, I hope I don't need to point out the obvious error in that paragraph above...

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

That's fine Aplunk as you long as people know it is just your opinion and you do not try and state it as a verfiable fact.

You know, I'm pretty damned sure that eating tomatoes (for example) doesn't prevent or cure male pattern baldness, even though I'm unable to cough-up any scientific studies that PROVE that it doesn't! :wink:

Bryan

 

[powersam]

if you won't point it out bryan i will

'Lignans inhibit 5-alpha-reductase selectively and irreversibly binding with 5-alpha-reductase, thereby blocking conversion of testosterone to DHT."

when something blocks conversion of test to dht, oddly enough dht will be lowered. so please be good enough to show me what else i've missed here

 

[Bryan]

I was referring to the first sentence, which has two laughable errors:

"Flax secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG) works, not lowering serum 5-alpha-reductase like Finasteride or Dutasteride, but instead bind to it."

1) 5a-reductase doesn't exist in the blood serum. It's a cellular enzyme.

2) Finasteride and dutasteride work by binding to 5a-reductase, not by lowering levels of it.

Bryan

 

[powersam]

so that means basically his whole paragraph was a waste of time? i just thought it was funny that he told me it didnt lower dht while telling me it did lower dht

 

[Bryan]

so that means basically his whole paragraph was a waste of time? i just thought it was funny that he told me it didnt lower dht while telling me it did lower dht

Yeah, the whole statement was very confused. That's why I asked him for clarification. Notice that he still hasn't replied to me! :wink:

Bryan

 

[sublime]

That's fine Aplunk as you long as people know it is just your opinion and you do not try and state it as a verfiable fact.

You know, I'm pretty damned sure that eating tomatoes (for example) doesn't prevent or cure male pattern baldness, even though I'm unable to cough-up any scientific studies that PROVE that it doesn't! :wink:

Bryan

Not sure what your point is other than trying to divert attention to tomato's for some unknown reason.

 

[sublime]

I was referring to the first sentence, which has two laughable errors:

"Flax secoisolariciresinol diglucoside (SDG) works, not lowering serum 5-alpha-reductase like Finasteride or Dutasteride, but instead bind to it."

1) 5a-reductase doesn't exist in the blood serum. It's a cellular enzyme.

2) Finasteride and dutasteride work by binding to 5a-reductase, not by lowering levels of it.

Bryan

finasteride does not bind to 5AR it inhibits it.

 

[Bryan]

That's fine Aplunk as you long as people know it is just your opinion and you do not try and state it as a verfiable fact.

You know, I'm pretty damned sure that eating tomatoes (for example) doesn't prevent or cure male pattern baldness, even though I'm unable to cough-up any scientific studies that PROVE that it doesn't! :wink:

Bryan

Not sure what your point is other than trying to divert attention to tomato's for some unknown reason.

I'm going to assume that you're just "playing dumb" here.

Bryan

 

[sublime]

so that means basically his whole paragraph was a waste of time? i just thought it was funny that he told me it didnt lower dht while telling me it did lower dht

You were actually the one who stated they lower it, no one else has.

 

[hairhaircomeagain]

This argument has been going on in two different threads. Really no point arguing. FLAX is cheap stuff. It may work, may not work...OK WILL not work. If you wanna add something cheap and healthy to your regimen, add it, otherwise dont...Clearly nothing has been proved, so no point arguing..

 

[powersam]

actually i said if flax lowered dht comparably to finasteride you'd get similar side effects to finasteride. then he posted his little thing saying : "does not lower", while in the same post he claimed it did lower dht. odd

sublime -"finasteride does not bind to 5ar it inhibits it "

Finasteride and dutasteride are both competitive inhibitors of 5-alpha reductase type II (though dutasteride also inhibits 5-ar type I), meaning that they compete with testosterone in binding to it. If finasteride or dutasteride binds to the enzyme then testosterone can’t and no conversion to DHT can be performed by that enzyme molecule for as long as the inhibitor is in place.

 

[sublime]

That's fine Aplunk as you long as people know it is just your opinion and you do not try and state it as a verfiable fact.

You know, I'm pretty damned sure that eating tomatoes (for example) doesn't prevent or cure male pattern baldness, even though I'm unable to cough-up any scientific studies that PROVE that it doesn't! :wink:

Bryan

Not sure what your point is other than trying to divert attention to tomato's for some unknown reason.

I'm going to assume that you're just "playing dumb" here.

Bryan

I get what you are leading to Bryan. :wink:

Anyway I know that in vitro obviously will not be the same as in vivo but it does show efficiency for flax SDG in relation to binding 5AR and thus preventing the conversion to DHT. The trial that they ran also proves that flax SDG is effective to some degree.

 

[Bryan]

Anyway I know that in vitro obviously will not be the same as in vivo but it does show efficiency for flax SDG in relation to binding 5AR and thus preventing the conversion to DHT. The trial that they ran also proves that flax SDG is effective to some degree.

But do you seriously think that eating flax is going to be anywhere NEARLY as effective at reducing DHT as the drugs designed for that purpose?? I don't. I would be amazed if it reduced it by even as much as 10%, not to mention the 70% that you get from finasteride, or the 90%+ from dutasteride.

You know, it's not like scientists never ever test natural substances (like herbs, or whatever) in living human beings for their ability to perform various functions or alter metabolism in various ways. For example, I can cite you a couple of fairly recent studies in which a hefty dose of GLA (gamma-linolenic acid) was given orally to human test subjects, and found not to have any significant effect at stopping the production of DHT. So testing like that _does_ happen occasionally. So if simply eating flax were as effective as taking finasteride or even dutasteride, don't you think some enterprising researcher would have noticed such an effect, and we ALL would have heard about it by now?

Bryan

 

[sublime]

Anyway I know that in vitro obviously will not be the same as in vivo but it does show efficiency for flax SDG in relation to binding 5AR and thus preventing the conversion to DHT. The trial that they ran also proves that flax SDG is effective to some degree.

But do you seriously think that eating flax is going to be anywhere NEARLY as effective at reducing DHT as the drugs designed for that purpose?? I don't. I would be amazed if it reduced it by even as much as 10%, not to mention the 70% that you get from finasteride, or the 90%+ from dutasteride.

You know, it's not like scientists never ever test natural substances (like herbs, or whatever) in living human beings for their ability to perform various functions or alter metabolism in various ways. For example, I can cite you a couple of fairly recent studies in which a hefty dose of GLA (gamma-linolenic acid) was given orally to human test subjects, and found not to have any significant effect at stopping the production of DHT. So testing like that _does_ happen occasionally. So if simply eating flax were as effective as taking finasteride or even dutasteride, don't you think some enterprising researcher would have noticed such an effect, and we ALL would have heard about it by now?

Bryan

Bryan,

Isn't that what I presented to you. I showed you a study that, not neccesarly flax (could be a different seed), Enterolactone and Enterodiol do just that. Most great studies that revolve around food as a whole only come from universisty's or overseas. What is the percentage that flax is effective? I honestly do not know, all I can do is report about its effects on me. Do I believe it is more effective than finasteride? I do not know. Hopefully in the future more money will be put towards the effort to better determine its efficiency.

Of course I do not believe that the loss of hair is only caused by DHT alone, if that were the case finasteride would be all we need. I am sure you can agree with me on that point. :wink:

You have to admit that the FDA and science is biased towards natural remedies. Companies that sell cherries cannot say they are healthy for the heart and reduce inflammation on their website. And that is with studies backing those claims. I understand the FDA's role but I fell they cause some concern when they wield their power towards the side with the best lobbying campaign.