Dietary ways of reducing DHT

[jakeb]

Found this on Google Answers... while the question is about reducing DHT in order to treat acne, less DHT is less DHT. To me it seems like these dietary tips could be a good addition to the meds. Check it out:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

 

[Aplunk1]

I really wouldn't focus too much on changing your diet, unless it's unhealthy. Stick to your healthy foods, less hormone-polluted meat, and exercise.

Also, stick to your proven treatments.

That's my advice.

 

[sublime]

The forum makes some valid points in regards to your diet. Should you gear your diet towards foods that only inhibit 5AR, I would not. Do I eat a lot of them in my diet though, 4377 yeah.

Easy mods to your diet:

Instead of potato chips eat a flax seed, pumpkin seed and walnut mix. (Do not buy these products "salted". America is already on a sodium overload.)

Quit eating at McDonalds, it causes inflammation due to the highly refined products they use and all the trans fats (High levels of omega6). Instead make food at your house, apartment or whatever. I was surprised at how easy I got used to doing this. You can add stuff like garlic to your food. I usually make a quick veggie wrap of black beans, onion, garlic, spinach, red pepper, and guac.

If you make protein shakes you can use soy and add strawberries, blackberrier, etc to the shake. I also add some ground flax.

The biggest thing is staying away from fast foods, I would even cross them off my list. Tough part is when you are drunk and craving a hardee's cheeseburger....mmmmmm.

 

[science-jay]

I think a good diet is important for good health and less inflammation/oxidation processes, actually you just grow old a little slower so you're hairloss will maybe also benefit,

Because i was microdosing finasteride (0.25mg, reducing DHT 60%), for a long time and it didn't help me whatsoever, i don't think a change in a less DHT-converting diet will help, The same problem with flax/saw palmetto/beta-sitosterol etc. exits. Say it's possible with a diet to reduce DHT a 35%...Maybe the treshold is 68% inhibition to have any effect on the hair...

 

[sublime]

According to studies you can modulate 5AR in your body to the same level as avodart by using Flax SDG.

 

[science-jay]

According to studies you can modulate 5AR in your body to the same level as avodart by using Flax SDG.

why not using avodart than?? Much better if you wanna be sure you keep your hormone levels stable over time. If flax-linans are that strong i would worry about reliability in the flax-lignans, are all flax-lignans the same and if not how are you sure there's always the same amount of active ingredients in it?

 

[Jupiter1]

http://www.flaxlignaninfo.com/rsg_flax/ ... 0A002E0FD8

Over a six-month period, 10 men, between the ages of 20 and 70 and in varying stages of Androgenetic Alopecia, consumed one 250 mg capsule of LinumLife EXTRA. Photographs were used to document hair loss conditions at the beginning of the study. At the end of the test period, eight men reported modest improvement of their hair loss condition, one reported much improvement and one subject reported no effect. Initial effects were noticed, on average, within one to two months of starting supplementation with flax lignans and no side effects were reported. Throughout the study, the daily number of hairs lost decreased and 50 percent of subjects noticed a decrease in oil secretion in their scalp. More noticeable improvements were noted in subjects with more severe conditions of Androgenetic Alopecia.

 

[science-jay]

http://www.flaxlignaninfo.com/rsg_flax/digifolder.nsf/htmlViewDocuments/C7882618E30B299BC125700A002E0FD8

Over a six-month period, 10 men, between the ages of 20 and 70 and in varying stages of Androgenetic Alopecia, consumed one 250 mg capsule of LinumLife EXTRA. Photographs were used to document hair loss conditions at the beginning of the study. At the end of the test period, eight men reported modest improvement of their hair loss condition, one reported much improvement and one subject reported no effect. Initial effects were noticed, on average, within one to two months of starting supplementation with flax lignans and no side effects were reported. Throughout the study, the daily number of hairs lost decreased and 50 percent of subjects noticed a decrease in oil secretion in their scalp. More noticeable improvements were noted in subjects with more severe conditions of Androgenetic Alopecia.

sorry to spoil the party here, but this study is really unreliable according to basic statistics. Only 10 men were tested...this group is really to small to have any statistical significance, besides that the group could be selected from a non aselect/non-representive group because they don't mention from where they've got this 10 men...

btw: good source: the flax lignan information bureau....haha
i'm gonna do some research in Pubmed and then i will be back with some solid stuff.

 

[sublime]

SJ - The reason I do not use dutasteride is because it blocks some 5AR-I and alot of 5AR-II. Basically it poisons your system. Flax modulates and binds.

Do you know why there was only a study of 10 people? Because you cannot patent flax SDG's. Granted the study should hopefully be done by university or somone who would not profit due to the findings. I wish Propecia would do the same things as well.

 

[science-jay]

SJ - The reason I do not use dutasteride is because it blocks some 5AR-I and alot of 5AR-II. Basically it poisons your system. Flax modulates and binds.

Do you know why there was only a study of 10 people? Because you cannot patent flax SDG's. Granted the study should hopefully be done by university or somone who would not profit due to the findings. I wish Propecia would do the same things as well.

i totally agree with you to be cautious with using dutasteride, but you were saying flax inhibited the same amount of DHT, so i was assuming both type 1 and 2, and then using a lot of flax could also be dangerous i guess.
natural doesn't mean that it's good,
but if your saying flax is less stronger, than i understand

 

[Bryan]

According to studies you can modulate 5AR in your body to the same level as avodart by using Flax SDG.

Oh my god...I find that very very very VERY unlikely. I doubt that Glaxo would have spent hundreds of millions of $$$ on developing dutasteride if you could achieve the same effect by taking flax.

I also have similar doubts about the claims at the link in the very first post in this thread. All of that material was highly speculative, IMHO.

Bryan

 

[Aplunk1]

Thanks, Bryan.

I also had the very same opinion about Flax vs. Dutasteride. I think it's just ridiculously stupid to think that Flax could perform as well as dutasteride in terms of hairloss... If that were the case, more people would be all over Flax.

 

[sublime]

"Oh my god...I find that very very very VERY unlikely. I doubt that Glaxo would have spent hundreds of millions of $$$ on developing dutasteride if you could achieve the same effect by taking flax."

You can't patent flax, that's why. Then you begin your campaign by saying that natural treatments are unsafe and ineffective. Same tye of tactics that has been going in the industry for years.


"I also have similar doubts about the claims at the link in the very first post in this thread. All of that material was highly speculative, IMHO. "

I find it amusing when people act as if food does not affect your body in any way, shape or form.

Here's a study on SDG's.
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.o...7b8754e383d84ecd1a71d388&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha


Aplunk1 - Maybe in the future more people will be, but do not count on your doctor to know anything about it. They really only know what their pharma sales rep tells them. Most medical doctors today are a joke IMO.

 

[Bryan]

"Oh my god...I find that very very very VERY unlikely. I doubt that Glaxo would have spent hundreds of millions of $$$ on developing dutasteride if you could achieve the same effect by taking flax."

You can't patent flax, that's why.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the reason!

Then you begin your campaign by saying that natural treatments are unsafe and ineffective. Same tye of tactics that has been going in the industry for years.

Actually, I made a VERY SPECIFIC response to your claim that "...you can modulate 5AR in your body to the same level as avodart by using Flax SDG." THAT is what I said is very very very VERY unlikely. Don't put words in my mouth. And I stand by what I said.

"I also have similar doubts about the claims at the link in the very first post in this thread. All of that material was highly speculative, IMHO. "

I find it amusing when people act as if food does not affect your body in any way, shape or form.

I'm not saying that food doesn't affect your body in any way, shape, or form; I'm contesting the specific claims that were being made. While the claims at the first link are not quite as egregious as the claim that flax can emulate the DHT-reducing abilities of dutasteride, nevertheless there's a lot of innacurate and misleading statements in there.

Here's a study on SDG's.
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.o...7b8754e383d84ecd1a71d388&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

That's just an in vitro study using prostate tissue and foreskin homogenates. Not terribly convincing that EATING flax would be as effective as taking dutasteride! :wink:

Bryan

 

[sublime]

Oh yeah, I'm sure that's the reason!

Say what you want but the pharma industry uses very heavy handed tactics against anything that cannot have a patent tied to it.

Actually, I made a VERY SPECIFIC response to your claim that "...you can modulate 5AR in your body to the same level as avodart by using Flax SDG." THAT is what I said is very very very VERY unlikely. Don't put words in my mouth. And I stand by what I said.

No problem. I actually had other things written there and removed the bulk of the paragraph. The "...and then you....", was meaning the FDA and phara industry, this was not directed at you.

I'm not saying that food doesn't affect your body in any way, shape, or form; I'm contesting the specific claims that were being made. While the claims at the first link are not quite as egregious as the claim that flax can emulate the DHT-reducing abilities of dutasteride, nevertheless there's a lot of innacurate and misleading statements in there.

My statement was not inaccurate and related to the study.

That's just an in vitro study using prostate tissue and foreskin homogenates. Not terribly convincing that EATING flax would be as effective as taking dutasteride! :wink:

It is the flax hulls. Also where is the vaste majority of type 5AR-II found in the body?

 

[Bryan]

I'm not saying that food doesn't affect your body in any way, shape, or form; I'm contesting the specific claims that were being made. While the claims at the first link are not quite as egregious as the claim that flax can emulate the DHT-reducing abilities of dutasteride, nevertheless there's a lot of innacurate and misleading statements in there.

My statement was not inaccurate and related to the study.

Are you referring to the claim about how eating flax can be as effective as dutasteride? Sorry, but that is patently false.

That's just an in vitro study using prostate tissue and foreskin homogenates. Not terribly convincing that EATING flax would be as effective as taking dutasteride! :wink:

It is the flax hulls. Also where is the vaste majority of type 5AR-II found in the body?

I'm not really sure about that. In fact, I tend to doubt that there actually IS one single place which accounts for a "vast majority" of 5a-reductase type II all by itself. What's the point of your question?

Bryan

 

[powersam]

as to your actual points of contention i have no input whatsoever except to say that if flaxseeds did indeed reduce dht as much as avodart would they not then also produce the same side effects? on another point i do believe most definately that diet has a major impact on hairloss. if it can affect skin or inflammation in can affect hairloss. everyones probably heard my story about the uncle with coeliac so i wont repeat it.

and sublime dont get down on doctors, if they werent around you'd most probably be dead. giving them crap for not being completely up to date on a cosmetic condition while they do their best to keep up to date on the ever changing diagnostic information of the life threatening ones seems a bit silly.

 

[sublime]

Patently false? There's an interesting way of phrasing things.

I'm not really sure about that. In fact, I tend to doubt that there actually IS one single place which accounts for a "vast majority" of 5a-reductase type II all by itself. What's the point of your question?

Search google.



PowerSam - It doesn't produce the same side effects due to the fact that it modulates DHT instead of inhibiting it. More and more I am concerend about what inhibiting 5AR-II is doing to me. Obviously there are additional pathways that finasteride affects due to side effects like lowered libido and brain fog. I cannot speak to dutasteride in this regard as I have never taken it.

I would be dead? How is that? I appreciate your hypothetical situation but humans have gotten by without doctors in the past. I would like to also point out that doctors back then used a more natural approach to diseases instead of offering up pills by the dozen. I think some doctors do perform a great service such as surgeons and the like. Look at the bad press Dr Ornish has received with his dietary plan of no meat to hold off future heart attacks. People do not want to change their diets or what they eat so more and more pills will be created to fight off these problems we have created in our bodies. I had my mom stop taking statin drugs and had her start taking red yeast rice, guess which one works better? RYR.

 

[Bryan]

as to your actual points of contention i have no input whatsoever except to say that if flaxseeds did indeed reduce dht as much as avodart would they not then also produce the same side effects?

That's a very good point, too. In fact, they're likely to have even MORE side-effects than a designed drug like dutasteride, because the latter was designed to have ONLY one specific effect, unlike a natural food, which could have multiple such effects.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Patently false? There's an interesting way of phrasing things.

I also like this way of phrasing it: it's PALPABLY false!

I'm not really sure about that. In fact, I tend to doubt that there actually IS one single place which accounts for a "vast majority" of 5a-reductase type II all by itself. What's the point of your question?

Search google.

I've read a lot of medical journal studies having to do with 5a-reductase, and I don't recall ever seeing anything relevant to what you said. Why don't you just tell me what you were getting at, instead of giving me such an unhelpfully terse reply?

PowerSam - It doesn't produce the same side effects due to the fact that it modulates DHT instead of inhibiting it.

What do you think is the difference betqween those two?

Bryan