RU58841 should be fine by itself as it shouldn't go systemic. Killing DHT systemically is going to cause problems, if not now down the road. I can promise you that.
Did I Make The Right Decision About Quitting Propecia?
- Thread starter Imhairloss
- Start date
RU58841 should be fine by itself as it shouldn't go systemic. Killing DHT systemically is going to cause problems, if not now down the road. I can promise you that.
- Reaction score
- 313
I understand where you're coming from. but understand you're in a small minority of people who get side effects. You don't hear from most people that had no sides from finasteride going around saying their junk still works or give positive reviews on it. Let's be honest, it's kind of shitty for a lot of people for even maintaining hair for a lot of people unless combined with something else. It would be interesting if someone could find the number of prescriptions written for finasteride and compare it to the number of people who claim they've gotten these permanent side effects, even thousands of people could amount to less than 1%.
I'd still like to see what the mechanism behind this crash is. I can understand some type of hormonal crash similar to coming off of anabolic steroids, but the mental sides make no sense. So I have depleted levels of certain neurosteroids for 15 years and nothing happens during this time? I'm not trying to make fun of what you're saying but I'd like to know why this is the case, there's just not enough evidence to show for these psychological sides.
- Reaction score
- 313
I wish RU by itself would work for me, it works pretty good but DHT still has a pretty high affinity for androgen receptors in hair follicles, for some people RU works pretty good in higher doses.
I'm curious as to what problems you believe a lack of DHT can cause over time that it already hasn't caused.
There is enough evidence to have created a Post Finasteride Syndrome Foundation.
And Harvard and Baylor university doing studies as to how this happens to men.
www.pfsfoundation.org
Read what these scientists and endocrinologists are saying.
SOMERSET, N.J., Sept. 29, 2016 – Men who experience persistent sexual dysfunction after discontinuing finasteride have “neurobiological abnormalities,” suggests a new study published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.
Among those abnormalities is neural circuitry that overlaps with functional abnormalities identified in men suffering from “major depression.”
Titled Characteristics of Men Who Report Persistent Sexual Symptoms after Finasteride Use for Hair Loss, the study was conducted at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston by a team of 19 clinical researchers led by Shalender Bhasin, MD, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Key findings of the investigator-initiated study, which included two separate fMRI activation tasks, one targeting affective dysfunction and one focusing on sexual arousal, are as follows:
“It’s a landmark study that not only takes a significant step toward validating the condition on a biological level, but lays the groundwork for future studies that promise to yield effective therapies,” he added.
Please download the full study here.
Post-finasteride syndrome occurs in men who’ve taken finasteride to treat hair loss, or enlarged prostates. Reported symptoms include: loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, depression, suicidal ideation, anxiety, panic attacks, Peyronie’s disease, penile shrinkage, gynecomastia, muscle atrophy, cognitive impairment, insomnia, severely dry skin and tinnitus. The condition often has a life-altering impact on victims and their families, such as job loss and the breakup of marriages and romantic relationships, while also being linked to suicides.
As of Sept. 26, the World Health Organization Programme for International Drug Monitoring’s database of adverse drug reactions contained 13,546 finasteride ADRs, including 3,577 sexual function and fertility disorders, 1,526 depressed mood disorders and disturbances, and 67 completed suicides.
In March 2015, the U.S. National Institutes of Health listed PFS on its Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center, noting that “some patients who have taken finasteride have referred to side effects such as sexual dysfunction and depression (sometimes severe)… Studies sponsored by the NIH and other organizations are underway to better understand the effects of 5-alpha reductase inhibitor drugs.”
About the PFS Foundation
Headquartered in Somerset N.J., the Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation was established in July 2012 as a 501(c)(3) organization, with private grants from families in the U.S. and abroad. Tax-deductible financial donations to the nonprofit organization can be made via PFSFoundation.org, which also houses patient-recruitment information on active clinical studies, published research, research goals, and media reports about PFS. In July 2015, the PFS Foundation partnered with the Southwest Brain Bank in the Department of Psychiatry at the Texas Tech University El Paso. The mission of the brain bank is to function as a donation site for post-mortem human brain and spinal cord tissue of PFS patients, and study that matter to better understand the pathology and etiology of the condition.
# # #
Contact
Philip Roberts
Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation
proberts@pfsfoundation.org
(856)425-6046
And Harvard and Baylor university doing studies as to how this happens to men.
www.pfsfoundation.org
Read what these scientists and endocrinologists are saying.
SOMERSET, N.J., Sept. 29, 2016 – Men who experience persistent sexual dysfunction after discontinuing finasteride have “neurobiological abnormalities,” suggests a new study published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.
Among those abnormalities is neural circuitry that overlaps with functional abnormalities identified in men suffering from “major depression.”
Titled Characteristics of Men Who Report Persistent Sexual Symptoms after Finasteride Use for Hair Loss, the study was conducted at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston by a team of 19 clinical researchers led by Shalender Bhasin, MD, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Key findings of the investigator-initiated study, which included two separate fMRI activation tasks, one targeting affective dysfunction and one focusing on sexual arousal, are as follows:
- Symptomatic finasteride users had “significantly lower IIEF [International Index of Erectile Function] composite score” and “significantly lower scores for each of its domains of erectile function, sexual desire, orgasmic function, intercourse satisfaction, and overall satisfaction.”
- “The PHQ-9 depression scores were significantly higher” in symptomatic finasteride users. Beck Depression Inventory and Hamilton Depression Inventory “also revealed significantly higher depression scores” in symptomatic finasteride users.
- “As sexual function worsened (ie, as IIEF scores went down), there was increasing activity in the neural circuits corresponding to sexual arousal and decreasing activity in brain regions associated with higher level cognitive and motivational networks in symptomatic finasteride users in response to erotic stimuli. This dissociation in activity may be a marker of neural changes post finasteride use.”
- There exists “a significant positive correlation between a subset of BDI [Beck Depression Inventory] scores related to negative attitude and BOLD [blood oxygen level dependent] activity in the right nucleus accumbens, left pregenual anterior cingulate cortex, right insula, right lateral orbito-frontal cortex, and left posterior cingulate, as well as a negative correlation between BDI subscores and BOLD activity in the right parahippocampal/fusiform gyrus. This neural circuitry overlaps with functional abnormalities that have been identified in major depression.”
“It’s a landmark study that not only takes a significant step toward validating the condition on a biological level, but lays the groundwork for future studies that promise to yield effective therapies,” he added.
Please download the full study here.
Post-finasteride syndrome occurs in men who’ve taken finasteride to treat hair loss, or enlarged prostates. Reported symptoms include: loss of libido, erectile dysfunction, depression, suicidal ideation, anxiety, panic attacks, Peyronie’s disease, penile shrinkage, gynecomastia, muscle atrophy, cognitive impairment, insomnia, severely dry skin and tinnitus. The condition often has a life-altering impact on victims and their families, such as job loss and the breakup of marriages and romantic relationships, while also being linked to suicides.
As of Sept. 26, the World Health Organization Programme for International Drug Monitoring’s database of adverse drug reactions contained 13,546 finasteride ADRs, including 3,577 sexual function and fertility disorders, 1,526 depressed mood disorders and disturbances, and 67 completed suicides.
In March 2015, the U.S. National Institutes of Health listed PFS on its Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center, noting that “some patients who have taken finasteride have referred to side effects such as sexual dysfunction and depression (sometimes severe)… Studies sponsored by the NIH and other organizations are underway to better understand the effects of 5-alpha reductase inhibitor drugs.”
About the PFS Foundation
Headquartered in Somerset N.J., the Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation was established in July 2012 as a 501(c)(3) organization, with private grants from families in the U.S. and abroad. Tax-deductible financial donations to the nonprofit organization can be made via PFSFoundation.org, which also houses patient-recruitment information on active clinical studies, published research, research goals, and media reports about PFS. In July 2015, the PFS Foundation partnered with the Southwest Brain Bank in the Department of Psychiatry at the Texas Tech University El Paso. The mission of the brain bank is to function as a donation site for post-mortem human brain and spinal cord tissue of PFS patients, and study that matter to better understand the pathology and etiology of the condition.
# # #
Contact
Philip Roberts
Post-Finasteride Syndrome Foundation
proberts@pfsfoundation.org
(856)425-6046
Finasteride just doesn't block DHT, it inhibits 5 alpha reductase. 5 alpha reductase controls the conversion of other brain neurosteroids. And in some men this blockade causes severe mental side effects, depression, anxiety, cognitive dysfunction.
- Reaction score
- 313
I'm aware of how Finasteride works. But like you said yourself, this is some men, not the vast majority of men. Also, like I said above, it doesn't make sense how I can have these same neurosteroids inhibited right at this very moment and feel perfectly OK but after 15 years out of the blue it suddenly becomes a problem. This is the explanation I'd like to see.
EDIT: from the link you posted "Men with persistent sexual symptoms after finasteride use had depressed mood and affect but no evidence of androgen deficiency or insensitivity, or persistent inhibition of 5α± reductase."
So there's 5ar still working fine, uninhibited, after discontinuation of Finasteride, and no evidence of low T/DHT levels or sensitivity. This would imply that their neurosteroids should be fine since 5ar is still working.This study also took people that already reported sides and knew about them, so it's not really saying much.
A fairer study would be three groups, one group on finasteride and educated about possible side effects, one group on finasteride not told about side effects, and a placebo group (maybe two? one informed of sides and one not) and give them finasteride for X amount of time and document the results.
Last edited:
Even if it's a
Nobody knows why. Something triggers the endocrine system to crash.
I have had blood work done and I have hypogonadal testosterone levels.
Nobody knows why. Something triggers the endocrine system to crash.
I have had blood work done and I have hypogonadal testosterone levels.
If you do end up crashing which I HOPE you don't, there is no way out. No cure.
I hope you aware of that. Nobody wants to go bald, I understand. But that is the risk you are taking with this drug.
- Reaction score
- 313
See my edited post above. The risk of permenant side effects seems nonexistent to me and even in the event of a real crash there's drugs like Nolvadex/HCG that will make you recover. From your own link you posted, it says there's no evidence that finasteride causes a change in androgen sensitivity, or inhibition of 5ar after discontinuing the drug.
I have tried Clomid, didn't improve my symptoms.
The problem is in the brain.
Go to propeciahelp.com and read the forums.
These guys have tried all of these things with no improvement.
- Reaction score
- 313
Nolvadex is much better than Clomid.
No offense, but saying the problem is in the brain isn't any sort of evidence. If anything, it just seems like the problem is placebo effect if the problem is in the brain.
I just showed you studies from the world health organization, over 13 thousand adverse side effects reported, sexual dysfunction, mood disorders, completed suicides, due to finasteride usage. Post Finasteride Syndrome is recognized by the American National Institute of Health rare genetic diseases. As well as the Australian health organization. This ain't placebo my friend.
Some men get wrecked.
- Reaction score
- 313
And I agree with you, some men get side effects. The vast majority don't, 13 thousand isn't even 1 percent of people taking finasteride and out of these 13 thousand how many of them have permanent side effects? How many are easily fixable side effects or people with placebo sides? All that study showed is that finasteride does not have permanent effects once you come off.
On a side note, let's look at the state of hair loss treatments right now: f*****g blood pressure medication, prostate cancer medication, and anti-fungal shampoo. Or, you can rub questionable chinese-made chemicals on your head.
Last edited:
- Reaction score
- 36
The drug is a mystery I've read over the studies, The Harvard one in particular confuses me even more but I got burned as in lost sensitivity down below as in doesnt register being touched freaky feeling that's not even listed as a side but a simple google shows that many men get this side, something isn't right with this drug I am convinced they will find it eventually, I see it as smoking as initially wasnt believed to be harmful now it's seen as lethal may take a long time to discover it. However I have seen so many recovery stories that I do not believe it is irreversible just not an overnight thing but people do get better no doubt. And yes you are right the state of treatments for hairloss is awful, I mean taking a drug that's designed to treat cancer, insane really now I think about it, the body is a temple and nature should not be fucked with.
- Reaction score
- 0
My update since quitting propecia 3 days ago
- my erection are back to normal
-libido is also back to normal
- the tingling sensation i was experiencing went away
-The only thing that did not revert back to normal was morning wood or the sub conscious random erections I used to have from time to time. I still havent experienced any of these since taking finasteride for two days.
- my erection are back to normal
-libido is also back to normal
- the tingling sensation i was experiencing went away
-The only thing that did not revert back to normal was morning wood or the sub conscious random erections I used to have from time to time. I still havent experienced any of these since taking finasteride for two days.
You are one of the lucky ones.
Don't ever take a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor ever again.