Dht Levels After 4 Weeks Of finasteride And 8 Weeks Of finasteride + 4 Weeks Of dutasteride

[klooop]

Follow-Up to: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/1-month-on-finasteride-no-change-in-dht-levels.120933/

Hair state: Early stage diffuse thinning, more pronounced at temples.

I got Testosterone, Estradiol and DHT measured right before my first pill of Finasteride and 4 weeks in (5mg split into fourths, one fourth per day). After I saw that my DHT levels were not dropping after taking Finasteride, but were strangely even increasing, I took the plunge and added Dutasteride (0.5mg every third day) to the mix.

First two lab tests were carried out by the same lab, third one by a different one to make sure their DHT test wasn't flawed.

Drugs were bought at a local, reputable and official pharmacy, so fakes/underdosing can be essentially ruled out. Storage was under room temperature in a dry and dark place.

Pre-Finasteride
Testosterone: 637 ug/l (Range 280-1100)
Estradiol: 24 ng/l (Range 11-44)
DHT: 1460 ng/l (Range 250-990)

4 weeks of Finasteride
Testosterone: 890 ug/l (Range 280-1100)
Estradiol: 41 ng/l (Range 11-44)
DHT: 1670 ng/l (Range 250-990)

8 weeks of Finasteride + 4 weeks of Dutasteride (different lab)
Testosterone: 528 ug/l (Range 164-753)
Estradiol: --
DHT: 1270 ng/l (Range 300-850)

No clue how those DHT levels could even be possible. As far as I know, there is no recognized genetic mutation of the 5a-Reductase enzyme that could explain what is happening here. There is a thing called "backdoor synthesis" of DHT where DHT is produced not from Testosterone but rather from adrenal hormones, maybe that could be happening here or I just somehow don't really (or weakly) respond to 5a-reductase-inhibitors.

I did now increase my Dutasteride dosage to 0.5mg per day and am planning on getting DHT checked including some adrenal hormones. I am not experiencing side effects of any kind so far. Too early to say if it's helping my hair.


Any ideas?

 

[DHTcel]

what the f***????????????

 

[michel sapin]

no sign of gyno with such an increase of E2?

 

[klooop]

no sign of gyno with such an increase of E2?

None at all. No itchy/painful nipples.

I guess the ratio of androgens to estrogens is responsible for me not getting gyno. Just imagine how much androgenic effect my DHT has on the breast tissue. The bit of estrogen just can't compete with that.

 

[michel sapin]

do you have e2 level while on duta?
really weird that DHT doesnt decrease

 

[klooop]

do you have e2 level while on duta?
really weird that DHT doesnt decrease

Unfortunately not, didn't get that tested on my last test.

Right?! Afaik, a case like this hasn't been documented in the scientific literature yet.

 

[DHTcel]

Unfortunately not, didn't get that tested on my last test.

Right?! Afaik, a case like this hasn't been documented in the scientific literature yet.

chad doesn't have DHT, its over for us boyo. I have no explanation for why your dht is so high though. Have you looked into a hair system?

 

[klooop]

chad doesn't have DHT, its over for us boyo. I have no explanation for why your dht is so high though. Have you looked into a hair system?

There are two plausible possibilities for my DHT levels:
1. Overactivity of 5ar + genetic mutation of the 5ar-allele (VERY improbable, because inhibiting 5ar-conversion via finasteride showed a drastic increase in T and E2)
2. Adrenal overactivity (alternative synthesis of DHT)

I will get all of those things tested and try to get to the root of it. Doctors, even endos, seem to be rather useless in that regard. Most of them don't read scientific literature.

I have thought about a hair system, yes. But the thing is, I am diffuse thinning, so I am also losing hair at the sides, which seems be rather problematic with a standard (top) hair system.

 

[DHTcel]

There are two plausible possibilities for my DHT levels:
1. Overactivity of 5ar + genetic mutation of the 5ar-allele (VERY improbable, because inhibiting 5ar-conversion via finasteride showed a drastic increase in T and E2)
2. Adrenal overactivity (alternative synthesis of DHT)

I will get all of those things tested and try to get to the root of it. Doctors, even endos, seem to be rather useless in that regard. Most of them don't read scientific literature.

most doctors think propecia lowers testosterone lol

 

[klooop]

I expect whole genome sequencing to be cheaply available within the next 24 months. I might get that done and check the relevant sections of my genome for variants of 5AR and 3HSDB1 and other important proteins and enzymes.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

None at all. No itchy/painful nipples.

I guess the ratio of androgens to estrogens is responsible for me not getting gyno. Just imagine how much androgenic effect my DHT has on the breast tissue. The bit of estrogen just can't compete with that.

Gyno is rare on dutasteride.

 

[DHTcel]

Gyno is rare on dutasteride.

You would have to have very low testosterone or aromatase levels to not get gyno on dutasteride. It is very common to get gyno on dutasteride just going off of the amount of people I know irl who had to hop on arimidex a few weeks after getting their prescription.

 

[shidoin]

You would have to have very low testosterone or aromatase levels to not get gyno on dutasteride. It is very common to get gyno on dutasteride just going off of the amount of people I know irl who had to hop on arimidex a few weeks after getting their prescription.

Hey kid don't spread your bullshit about dutasteride and gyno! Genetically SOME are susceptible. Some can get gyno from certain foods and drinking alcohol

 

[klooop]

Hey kid don't spread your bullshit about dutasteride and gyno! Genetically SOME are susceptible. Some can get gyno from certain foods and drinking alcohol

Not necessarily. Both men and women have breast tissue. Afaik, Prolactin and Estrogen are responsible for gyno and in turn growth of that tissue. At least E2 is increased by Dutasteride (by increasing Free Testosterone and thus the amount that can be aromatized)

Certain foods and drinking alcohol also lead to increased E2 and can therefore be the reason for gyno.

 

[shidoin]

Not necessarily. Both men and women have breast tissue. Afaik, Prolactin and Estrogen are responsible for gyno and in turn growth of that tissue. At least E2 is increased by Dutasteride (by increasing Free Testosterone and thus the amount that can be aromatized)

Certain foods and drinking alcohol also lead to increased E2 and can therefore be the reason for gyno.

Just because you get an increase in estrogen does not mean it will lead to gyno. Saying that everyone taking dutasteride will get gyno is bro science

 

[SteveTabernack]

Definitely wild that your DHT levels don't budge one bit, but I recall that the user @IdealForehead claimed to have the same experience. He said multiple blood tests confirmed that neither finasteride nor dutasteride had an effect on him.

 

[Unacknowledged]

Follow-Up to: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/1-month-on-finasteride-no-change-in-dht-levels.120933/

Hair state: Early stage diffuse thinning, more pronounced at temples.

I got Testosterone, Estradiol and DHT measured right before my first pill of Finasteride and 4 weeks in (5mg split into fourths, one fourth per day). After I saw that my DHT levels were not dropping after taking Finasteride, but were strangely even increasing, I took the plunge and added Dutasteride (0.5mg every third day) to the mix.

First two lab tests were carried out by the same lab, third one by a different one to make sure their DHT test wasn't flawed.

Drugs were bought at a local, reputable and official pharmacy, so fakes/underdosing can be essentially ruled out. Storage was under room temperature in a dry and dark place.

Pre-Finasteride
Testosterone: 637 ug/l (Range 280-1100)
Estradiol: 24 ng/l (Range 11-44)
DHT: 1460 ng/l (Range 250-990)

4 weeks of Finasteride
Testosterone: 890 ug/l (Range 280-1100)
Estradiol: 41 ng/l (Range 11-44)
DHT: 1670 ng/l (Range 250-990)

8 weeks of Finasteride + 4 weeks of Dutasteride (different lab)
Testosterone: 528 ug/l (Range 164-753)
Estradiol: --
DHT: 1270 ng/l (Range 300-850)

No clue how those DHT levels could even be possible. As far as I know, there is no recognized genetic mutation of the 5a-Reductase enzyme that could explain what is happening here. There is a thing called "backdoor synthesis" of DHT where DHT is produced not from Testosterone but rather from adrenal hormones, maybe that could be happening here or I just somehow don't really (or weakly) respond to 5a-reductase-inhibitors.

I did now increase my Dutasteride dosage to 0.5mg per day and am planning on getting DHT checked including some adrenal hormones. I am not experiencing side effects of any kind so far. Too early to say if it's helping my hair.


Any ideas?

Interesting. Keep us up to date.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

You would have to have very low testosterone or aromatase levels to not get gyno on dutasteride. It is very common to get gyno on dutasteride just going off of the amount of people I know irl who had to hop on arimidex a few weeks after getting their prescription.

People who get gyno on duta they post it on this forum to get their answer.

 

[Ollie]

@klooop did you notice an increase in libido as well ?

 

[klooop]

@klooop did you notice an increase in libido as well ?

No change in that regard, if there was a change at all, libido is a bit reduced (Probably nocebo effect at work though)