DHT function(s) in the body.

Nuli

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After my venture with propecia for 5 months, quitting due to sexual sides, I've been wondering if these sides were real or part a placebo effect. I wanted to learn more about the hormone that propecia inhibits, DHT. Most people on this board seem to think that DHT is only related to bad things such as acne, male pattern baldness, and prostate cancer, so blocking 70-80% of this troublesome hormone seems like a great idea. I want to find out if DHT does play a role in male sex drive(libido). Well after researching on the net, I was unable to come across any scientific study that connects DHT to sex drive, but I did find numerous articles stating that DHT does play a large role in the sex drive.

http://books.google.com/books?id=H_uLx- ... #PPA187,M1

(scroll to topic 15)

http://www.anabolicsteroids-hormoneknow ... erone.html

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

^Patrick Arnold is well known in the steriod/prohormone world, he is very well informed on hormone effects in the human body. I think he is a good source.

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The main reason for this post is I would just like to be more informed on the way DHT affects our body. If anyone has scientific studies on the direct role on DHT and the sex drive, please post it.


P.S Idk if this is the right section, move if need be.
 

Nuli

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finfighter said:
Well, Finasteride inderectly hinders dht, buy suppresing the enzyme 5 alpha reductase type 2 which is one of two ezymes that convert testosterone into dht.
As far as the libido issue, I guess everyone is different because, I have had an increased sex drive in the past six months that I have been taking finasteride. Some people have a naturally low dht count, these people have been studied in the dominican republic, over a span of twenty five years, no increased health risks were doccumented among this group of genetically dht defeicent people.

Hmm, this says otherwise.

"This is a relatively rare disorder, however it is actually quite common in the Dominican Republic. In this disorder, males are born with little or no 5-AR enzyme. They have ambiguous genitalia and are often raised as girls. When puberty occurs, their testosterone levels elevate normally although their DHT levels remain very low. Their musculature develops normally like that of other adults, however, they end up with little or no pubic / body hair and underdeveloped prostate and penis. Their libido and sexual function is often disrupted also."

I would consider sexual function a "health risk".
 

Mew

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after pubesent changes have occured dht is not essential to the human body

Not true. DHT definitely plays a role in adulthood, and it's not to just make you "go bald". Considering it's the most potent male androgen, that should give you a clue right there.


finasteride hinders a5r2 which in turn lowers dht production, in a healthy sexually matured male this poses no risk

Not true. What are you, a Merck schill?

5AR does far more than just metabolise the conversion of Testosterone to DHT... it also metabolises Progesterone --> Allopregnanolone and Doctor --> THDOC, both of which are vital neurosteroids which act on GABA-A receptors in the brain. DHT also mediates nitric oxide synthase and NO release (a vital neurotransmitter and necessary for erectile function) and is an antagonist of Estradiol in males. It is necessary for the proper functioning of the prostate, seminal vesicles, and fertility in some men... and far more.

You have to remember that 5AR2 deficient pseudohermaphrodites are not the norm, otherwise we'd all be born that way. Taking a normal male and transforming his hormonal profile to match that of a pseudohermaphrodite via Finasteride can lead to all sorts of problems, as they are hard wired that way from gestation/birth to operate in that manner -- we on the other hand are not.

It's a genetic mutation, it's not normal, and they may have other biochemical changes as a result which allow them to "function" or appear to function normally. If 5AR2 and DHT were not meant to be in the human body, they wouldn't exist, period... the human body is an incredibly efficient organism, and any unnecessary hormones, appendages or other functions are eliminated through evolution over millions of years.

Considering 5AR2 and DHT are still very much present, and when you inhibit them you can get a variety of mental, physical and sexual side effects, it is clear they play an established role in humans throughout life.

I suggest you do some reading, the BOOKS section of Google is a very good scientific resource.
 

Bryan

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Some of you here are relative newbies on this forum, so you may not have seen the following photos of the much-discussed Dominican "pseudohermaphrodites":

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/pse ... rodite.htm

The pics are from a lengthy article about those guys in a medical journal. There were also some very graphic photos of their altered genitalia, but there was no way I could include them in this set, because I'd get in big trouble with my Geocities account if I did.
 

amsch

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Bryan said:
Some of you here are relative newbies on this forum, so you may not have seen the following photos of the much-discussed Dominican "pseudohermaphrodites":

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/pse ... rodite.htm

The pics are from a lengthy article about those guys in a medical journal. There were also some very graphic photos of their altered genitalia, but there was no way I could include them in this set, because I'd get in big trouble with my Geocities account if I did.
Bryan, would you ever consider propecia?
 

Nuli

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Bryan said:
Some of you here are relative newbies on this forum, so you may not have seen the following photos of the much-discussed Dominican "pseudohermaphrodites":

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/pse ... rodite.htm

The pics are from a lengthy article about those guys in a medical journal. There were also some very graphic photos of their altered genitalia, but there was no way I could include them in this set, because I'd get in big trouble with my Geocities account if I did.

So it would be safe to say DHT plays a role in penis/testicle growth? That is quite scary for young people taking finasteride. 18-19 year olds could be still going through puberty and growing in those areas. Thats about enough evidence for me, finasteride is a no go.
 

Nuli

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finfighter said:
Propecia (finasteride 1mg) is safe for 18 year olds and this medication is not known to retard genitalia development in post pubesent men-by 18 puberty is completed-. The 5-year effectiveness and safety study submitted to the FDA included men aged 18 to 41 years old.

Ok so you're saying its safe for an 18 to take but, what about a 16 year old? Would it still be safe? Do you believe that an 18 year old male is a fully developed? I think not. Go ahead and trust the FDA, I mean only 2% of finasteride users get sides right? Arrogance is bliss.
 

Nuli

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I would LOVE to see your scientific evidence of puberty ending at 18 for a high average of males. Please prove me wrong.
 

Nuli

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Ok, the only thing I gained from the first pararaph is how long the average testicle size growth is, 6 years. Now 6 years starting from when? Would it be uncommon for a male to start puberty at say 11-14 years old? No its not at all, and there is no guarantee that development could not be longer then the average six years.

The second paragraph is about fertility, which im not really considered with.
 

Nuli

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I think its quite common knowledge that we are able to fertilize at a young age, im not concerned with that becuase a boy of that age would never be taking propecia. What im concerned about it the penis/testicle growth(part of puberty) that could still be in progress at the age of 18, the recommended minimum age to take propecia.
 

toivonen

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I took Propecia for 2 and half years, and my experience was:

1-It generally mantained the hair i had at the begining of the treatment, gave me a slight, slight regrowth in the vertex area.

2-During the time i was taking it, i've experienced my 1st cases of erectil disfunction (wich i NEVER had before), notice i didn't said that propecia gave me those problems, i said coincidently i had them during that period...coincidently, i thought...i was 33. Sure i'm not in my peak as i was when i was 20, but hell...

3-Other experienced things..i was slightly less active, i was much more passive towards things and people.

I thought at the time that those things could also be related to me, becoming older..wich in certain part, i have no doubt had it's importance to, so i decided to take it, till by a number of reasons i said to myself..heck, since i've mantained, but not seen visible regrowth in more than 2 years, and since i believe that hormones are a very complicated "business" and mother nature is also, and was seeing those side effects more and more noticble..let me stop for a while and see what happens...the result after more than 1 year since stoping!?:

1-I've had no shed, but how could there've been, since i never gained nothing or almost nothing..right?!?

2-I have the same amount of hair (at least based in the same non-scientific rules i've always used...mirror and photographs)

3-I realised after 2 or 3 months of stop using it, much more ejaculation, never had since, anymore erectil problems (no doubt i'll have them in the futur, in a natural process of age), i am more active as a person, DEFINITLY! I am also, AGAIN, more agressive in my behaviour twoards everything, and yet, my life is as good if not better as it was back than!

4-I've had, more..much more positive reactions from the feminin side...funny isn't it?!..and no, i've not became more atractive or positive..not visibly or noticble that is.

MY conclusion based in my personal experience(that's right, not YOURS..MINE):

What i had doubts if were related things due to inhibition of DHT, am now sure (after more than a year of stop doing it), that THEY WERE realated!! And with passing of time, am more and more sure of that, cause if some signs were changed after 2 months or so, others were more much more later changed...some of them, only recently were noticble!
With topical therappy, that i use since stoping Propecia (i've used some Elsom products, am now using Skin Biology Hair Signals, every day for 5 months), and with a healthy life, with an intake of a good suplement of anti-oxidants/vitamins...both in the form of fruits/vegetables/tea black and green as in oral suplements (life extension mix, but it could be any other cost/efective one)i've mantained my number of hairs and apearance...but most importantly, i've almost re-established myself as a healthy male, in this complex comunity...with my normal and natural behaviour, the one that is written in my genes..and that some people like, and others no doubt will always hate..but at least i'm....ME! Not a pale image, or a castrated half-male...sure, when i'll be 60 or 70, and in need to take for BPH some DHT inhibitors, i'll do it and accept more easilly some facts...but friends, not in my 30's!!! NEVER!

So in my case, YES, stoping using Propecia (or any other form or name of artificial DHT inhibition) was a very good thing..the best thing! I don't know if by now, i would have more 10 or 100 hairs in my scalp (or even if it was more, but i doubt that would ever be, much more), but the price i was paying and would pay, was and would be unberable and totaly disproportionated to the gains i was and would have..so here i am, a much more happy man with myself..oh, and not to mention...with still hair enough, to "soften" the head blows that life usually give us! :)

PS-Let's see if as bonus, i even have better results with my present therappy or with some futur promissing ones, that will come in the future..near, hoppefully!

PS2-This was my personal story, and this is not intended to influence or to say i'm more aware or smart than other people out there...do what you want to, but i felt the need of sharing my experience.
 

Nuli

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Thanks for your input, toivonen. I've had a similar response since getting off finasteride(2 months ago) my libido is back like crazy, erections are harder, and waaaay more energy at the gym. I still worry A LOT about losing my hair, but my manhood is not worth giving up.
 

hairrific

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Good god, get some v****, why go bald?

And for those of you who think you need all that DHT to get a bonner, or perhaps you think you are still going through puberty LOL, please remember there is still plenty of it floating around inside you because finasteride does not eliminate all of it. So just how much do you want cause I see on the weight lifting forums those androgen starved shaved chest and arms and back, shaved butt cheeked bald jocks just can't seem to get enough DHT no matter what. I see allot are writing in that they still having trouble and can't get it up.

Maybe some guys NEED ALL the DHT they have, I don't know, but one thing for sure is that the "pseudohermaphrodites" seem to be doing just fine except for the fact that they certainly needed DHT during development. As for now its to late for them, but I don't see anything that says they are sick or unhealthy as adults so DHT must not play a major roll in adults. They certainly had better muscles development and nicer, smoother skin than me.

No don't worry, I seriously drought anyone is gonna mistake me for a girl cause I take Propecia, LOL.
 

barcafan

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Just sounds like good old fashioned rationalization to me.

I guess if you go through what mew (or many others, who've had it worse than him) did, then hair loss just doesn't mean sh*t.
 

Nuli

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I found this interesting when reading over some posts on a steroid forum:

The hormones that can influence libido directly or indirectly include:
1 Testosterone
2 Dihydrotestosterone
3 Estradiol and other estrogens
4 Progesterone
5 DHEA
6 Cortisol
7 Aldosterone
8 Pregnenolone
9 Thyroid Hormones
10 Insulin
11 Glucagon
12 IGF-1
13 Growth Hormone
14 Melatonin
15 Vasopressin
16 Calcitonin
17 TSH
18 LH
19 FSH
20 GHRH
21 Prolactin
22 CRH
23 ACTH
24 TRH
25 Epinephrine
26 Norepinephrine
27 Dopamine
28 Serotonin
29 Oxytocin
30 Endorphins
31 Somatostatin
32 Renin
33 EPO
34 Angiotensins
etc.etc. (practically every hormone)

Of course, some have greater influence than others. But all are involved in a tight mesh of function. Abnormalities in one can permeate the entire system, causing problems with the others.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/522135-post3.html

DHT at #2. :shakehead:
 

Jokerman

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hairrific said:
So just how much do you want cause I see on the weight lifting forums those androgen starved shaved chest and arms and back, shaved butt cheeked bald jocks just can't seem to get enough DHT no matter what. I see allot are writing in that they still having trouble and can't get it up.

LMAO.
 

Nuli

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Jokerman said:
hairrific said:
So just how much do you want cause I see on the weight lifting forums those androgen starved shaved chest and arms and back, shaved butt cheeked bald jocks just can't seem to get enough DHT no matter what. I see allot are writing in that they still having trouble and can't get it up.

LMAO.

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about, these "bodybuilders" are suffering from loss of libido because after a cycle of anabolic steroids, their natural reproduction of test(and dht conversion) can be shut down temp/permanently. This is why taking a SERM post cycle is recommended, to balance hormones back and start up that production again. While ON cycle you will notice an increase in libido due to the high rate of test/dht in the body.
 
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