DHT AT YOUNG AGE

[HARM1]

TAKE A GUY THAT WILL BALED AT THE AGE OF 22. TODAY HE IS 12 .
if I were to inject him with great amounts of DHT would he go bald? we have dht in our body also as kids, is the gen, or gens that make the falcile be idntefied as an forign object time based? I think so, and my answer to the question would be, no he would not start to bald.

 

[gambit420]

um huh?

 

[CCS]

his follicles have fewer androgen receptors at age 12 than 21, so he would be less seceptible. but he would probably go bald.

balding follicles produce twice as much DHT as non balding follicles, and have twice as many androgen receptors.

a guy's twin was castrated for rape, and the non-catrated many went bald and the castrated man did not. A researcher at the mental ward injected the castrated man with testosterone for a while, and the guy went bald. He stopped injecting him, and the hair did not grow back.

 

[yeahyeahwhatever]

He stopped injecting him, and the hair did not grow back.

gutted . . . .

 

[Armando Jose]

Hormones in scalp before puberty

Hi guys;
A question:
A children of 5 or 6 years old with a luxuriant scalp hair, have a functional sebaceous gland in scalp hair folliccle?, and
if it is so, have these childrens T and DHT in the area of such hairs?

My suspicion is that in childrens before puberty have androgens in scalp follicles because the sebaceous gland need it. On the other hand it is not possible have a luxuriant and healthy hair without sebum. Pilosebaceous unit have all the enzymes to make androgens from cholesterol, and clearly childrens also have cholesterol.

Any comments?

Armando

 

[Bryan]

Re: Hormones in scalp before puberty

On the other hand it is not possible have a luxuriant and healthy hair without sebum.

Jesus Christ, Armando, give it up!

People with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (they have non-functional androgen receptors) have EXACTLY that: thick, healthy, luxuriant hair growth, with no sebum production. How many times do I have to keep pointing that out to you?

Bryan

 

[CCS]

sebum glands are next to follicles, not inside them.

RU58841 probably shrinks sebacious glands 60%, yet hairs grow better with it. of course that could mean the lack of androgens in the follicles outweight the lack of androgen attachment in the sebum glands.

where did you hear we need sebum to grow hair?

 

[Bryan]

TAKE A GUY THAT WILL BALED AT THE AGE OF 22. TODAY HE IS 12 .
if I were to inject him with great amounts of DHT would he go bald?

Probably not. The evidence from that one stumptailed macaque study suggests that macaque hair follicles are insensitive to androgens prior to puberty. Although I haven't heard of any similar direct evidence in humans, I would think that it's likely to be the case for them, too. For some reason or other (Stephen Foote and I have gone around and around on this issue for a long time), something seems to happen to scalp hair follicles during puberty that changes the way they respond to androgens. Whiting has suggested that it might be some sort of "genetic clock".

Bryan

 

[CCS]

so do androgens cause the side hair to slowly thin as we age or is that a different mechanism? Do you think nizoral or NANO would help the side hairs?

 

[Bryan]

so do androgens cause the side hair to slowly thin as we age or is that a different mechanism?

I wouldn't make any sweeping statements about side hair, because that hair is in a transitional region. Some side hairs are still undoubtedly at least slightly sensitive to androgens, and some aren't sensitive at all. It depends not only on the individual, but on the individual hair follicle.

A study I've referenced several times on these hairloss sites was one where they extracted several follicles from human scalps (not the sides, but the vertex) and tested them in various ways, like exposing them to testosterone to see how their growth was affected. Just as you'd expect, most of them were INHIBITED by the testosterone, but curiously, the occasional follicle here and there didn't seem to be affected at all! I'm sure that's also the case on the sides, where there will be varying degrees of androgen sensitivity.

Do you think nizoral or NANO would help the side hairs?

Don't know for sure about the Nizoral (IMHO, that would depend to a considerable extent on how androgen-sensitive each follicle happened to be), but I would imagine that growth stimulants like NANO and minoxidil would stimulate the growth of ALL hair, including side hair.

Bryan

 

[Armando Jose]

Good morning Bryan;

I know your statement, “People with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (they have non-functional androgen receptors) have EXACTLY that: thick, healthy, luxuriant hair growth, with no sebum production. How many times do I have to keep pointing that out to you?â€￾
Thank you for your effort, but is not clear at all. As long as there is no evidence of the inexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs years before puberty there is not a real response about this question.
In the other hand theres is a study about a young woman without circulating androgens and she developed androgenetic alopecia (*). What do you think?
My idea is the importance of androgren’s metabolism inside pilosebacous unit.

To collegechemistrystudent:
“sebum glands are next to follicles, not inside them.â€￾
Sebaceous gland is a important part of the pilosebaceous system.

â€￾where did you hear we need sebum to grow hair?â€￾
Sebum is secreted by sebaceous gland.
Please see the epilation technique, in order to destroy the hairs with laser is neccesary destroy the sebum gland, and in recent studies about hair multiplication, it is observed that sebaceous gland grows together with the new hair.

The truth is out.

Armando


(*)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

Br J Dermatol. 1999 Sep;141(3):521-3.

Diffuse female hair loss: are androgens necessary?

Orme S, Cullen DR, Messenger AG.

Department of Dermatology, Royal Hallamshire Hospital, Sheffield, UK.

Diffuse hair loss in women is generally regarded as the female equivalent of male balding and is often referred to as female androgenetic alopecia. In this article we report the case of a young woman with hypopituitarism who presented with the clinical and histological features of female androgenetic alopecia in the absence of detectable levels of circulating androgens or other signs of postpubertal androgenization, showing that this pattern of hair loss is not necessarily androgen dependent.

Publication Types:
· Case Reports

PMID: 10583059 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Bryan]

Good morning Bryan;

I know your statement, “People with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (they have non-functional androgen receptors) have EXACTLY that: thick, healthy, luxuriant hair growth, with no sebum production. How many times do I have to keep pointing that out to you?â€￾

Thank you for your effort, but is not clear at all. As long as there is no evidence of the inexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs years before puberty there is not a real response about this question.

What does that have to do with what I said, Armando? You keep ignoring the fundamental point, which is that neither pre-pubertal children nor people with CAIS produce any sebum, BUT THEY STILL HAVE LUXURIANT HAIR. Why don't you face that issue, and stop ignoring it?

In the other hand theres is a study about a young woman without circulating androgens and she developed androgenetic alopecia (*). What do you think?

I think she probably didn't really have androgenetic alopecia! :wink: But even if she did (by way of androgens produced in the hair follicle), so what? What does that have to do with your theory about the alleged importance of sebum for hair growth?

Bryan

 

[CCS]

i think when hair transplant docs transplant follicles, they don't take the sebum glands with them.

 

[HARM1]

Good morning Bryan;

I know your statement, “People with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (they have non-functional androgen receptors) have EXACTLY that: thick, healthy, luxuriant hair growth, with no sebum production. How many times do I have to keep pointing that out to you?â€￾

Thank you for your effort, but is not clear at all. As long as there is no evidence of the inexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs years before puberty there is not a real response about this question.

What does that have to do with what I said, Armando? You keep ignoring the fundamental point, which is that neither pre-pubertal children nor people with CAIS produce any sebum, BUT THEY STILL HAVE LUXURIANT HAIR. Why don't you face that issue, and stop ignoring it?

[quote="Armando Jose":f8d3c]In the other hand theres is a study about a young woman without circulating androgens and she developed androgenetic alopecia (*). What do you think?

I think she probably didn't really have androgenetic alopecia! :wink: But even if she did (by way of androgens produced in the hair follicle), so what? What does that have to do with your theory about the alleged importance of sebum for hair growth?

Bryan[/quote:f8d3c]
I DO recall not having sebum as a kis, what happens all of a sudden?

 

[powersam]

has anyone ever seen proper documentation of that twin/castrated twin report? i find it hard to swallow that these things happened at all, why would they inject the castrated twin with testosterone in the first place?

 

[Old Baldy]

has anyone ever seen proper documentation of that twin/castrated twin report? i find it hard to swallow that these things happened at all, why would they inject the castrated twin with testosterone in the first place?

No, some people think it is a myth. I don't but some do.

 

[Armando Jose]

Hi guys;

What’s about this study?

A possible prepubertal onset of androgenetic alopecia.

Armando


Dermatology. 1999;199(3):256-7.

Assessing hair shedding in children.

Rampini P, Guarrera M, Rampini E, Rebora A.

Section of Dermatology, DISEM, University of Genoa, Genoa, Italy.

BACKGROUND: The wash test is currently used to assess hair shedding, though it lacks a cut-off point of normality and any evidence of being reliable. The aim of this study is to provide data to fulfil those needs. METHODS: The wash test was employed in a standardized way on 31 children aged 3-11 years. RESULTS: The test yielded 10.68 +/- 3.91 hairs, a figure which may be considered as 'normal' for children of that age. The chi(2) test granted the validity of the method. The number of shed hairs counted in the washing basin increased with the age of the subjects. COMMENT: The wash test proved to be reliable and to be a useful tool for monitoring hair shedding. The increasing trend with age may suggest a possible prepubertal onset of androgenetic alopecia.

PMID: 10592408 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Bryan]

Armando, why haven't you responded to my post from August 17?

 

[IBM]

Re: Hormones in scalp before puberty

.

 

[Bryan]

Well, it's certainly good for scalp hair!

Bryan