Desperate for advice

[fio]

HairLossTalk.com MEDIATORS,

I've been waiting for your advice on a possible new regiment. I sent the postings below, you asked that I document my regiment more precisely - as you can see I did - but I never heard back from you. Buff Boy recommended I get on Duatseride, but I do not want to go in that direction. I'm looking for a new topical program.

Thanks so much!
:cry:


I'm new to the forum. I'm 43-years-old, been slowly losing my hair for 20 years. Decided to attack the problem about 8 years ago. I've tried propecia, Dr. Lee's Xandrox 15% & 5% spironoloctone, Nizoral and every natural herb imagineable in conjunction with one another. Tried every combination. Nothing seems to work as my hair continues to fall out. I feel like I'm getting to the point where transplantation is my only option. Anyone have any other suggestions? I was thinking of trying tricomin and proxiphen. Anyone try these? I've spent so much money on this stuff that I'm starting to think that spending more money may be a waste of time and money. Anybody's input is deeply appreciated.

Thanks!!

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BadHairDecade
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject:

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HairlossTalk
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject:

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Fio can you specify exactly how long you were on each, what dosage you took of each, etc. etc. etc.

Its a lot to document im sure, but we can't make an assessment of what might have gone wrong without it.

Also when you took them, in what order, in what combinations, etc.

Based on what I've seen from saw palmetto users, that alone can cause endless shedding so who knows.. maybe you had SP in the mix for the last 8 years ... point being ... we need more info.

Look forward to it.

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fio
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Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: My Regiment

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Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I was on finasteride in combination with 2% minoxidil, then switched to Dr. Lee's 5% Xandrox, saw palmetto and various other herbs, which I can't remember the names of, for about two years. I saw no gains at all, maybe a little bit of slowing down of hair loss. After two years, I dropped the finasteride and all herbs out and stayed on Dr. Lee's 5% Xandrox Day/Night pack, added Nizoral and tried Avacor for about a year. The Avacor did absolutely nothing. I was on the second regiment in total for about two years. I did get my money back on the Avacor. I then upped my minoxidil regiment to Dr. Lee's 15% Xandrox in the PM, 5% Xandrox in the AM and 5% Spironoloctone two times/day. I've been on this regiment for about two years. Dr. Lee just recently advised me that I probably should drop the Spironoloctone and 15% Xandrox out and just stick with 5% Xandrox to maintain - he said there are no more gains to be had in my situation. "You've recruited all the follicles you are going to recruit." The truth is I don't believe I have recruited any follicles through all this. I think the only positive for me has been that my hairloss, though constant, did slow down. But I am presently very thinned out and looking for one last shot.

So, here I am trying to figure out if there is another course I can take beside transplants. I appreciate any advice you can give.

Thanks!

 

[Buffboy]

HairLossTalk.com MEDIATORS,

I've been waiting for your advice on a possible new regiment. I sent the postings below, you asked that I document my regiment more precisely - as you can see I did - but I never heard back from you. Buff Boy recommended I get on Duatseride, but I do not want to go in that direction. I'm looking for a new topical program.

!

I didn't recommend it! I said it was an OPTION! Didn't had much luck on it myself, suffered from side effects.

 

[fio]

No problem, Buff Boy. I appreciate you taking out the time to respond. Have a great day!

 

[fio]

Buff Boy,

By the way, I noticed you were on Proxiphen. Working for you? I was thinking about trying it. I'm already on 5% minoxidil. Do you think Proxiphen-N is any good as a supplement to my regiment? Is the Mixox the only difference between Proxiphen & Proxiphen-N?

Thanks again!

 

[Buffboy]

Buff Boy,

By the way, I noticed you were on Proxiphen. Working for you? I was thinking about trying it. I'm already on 5% minoxidil. Do you think Proxiphen-N is any good as a supplement to my regiment? Is the Mixox the only difference between Proxiphen & Proxiphen-N?

Thanks again!

Hey. I don't know if its working because I haven't been on it for more than 1 1/2 month. Too early to tell. I DO know that the two people that seems to know the most of hairloss treatments both say it's the best topical around. The guys are Bryan and Peter Mac from HLH.

The thing is I'd rather have good looking hair that's falling off rather than using Rogaine twice a day making my hair look like sh*t.

And no, the difference is that Proxiphen-N is without all the prescription agents (phenytoin and spironolactone). Go to http://www.drproctor.com and read about the products.

 

[fio]

You're right on the Rogaine 2x/day - my hair is definitely dried out from it, but I'd rather have it dry then not at all.

Thanks for the info. on Proxiphen. Did you experience any inital shedding when you first started on it?

Also, how do I get a hold of Bryan and/or Peter Mac?

Thanks so much.

 

[Buffboy]

About Regaine: Hey, we're all different! I just felt that I was tied to that sh*t, couldn't sleep anywhere but at my own house etc. Didn't want to have the damn bottle in my bag :lol:

I highly recommend that you read the following thread carefully where Bryan and I tell Ninja about Proxiphen:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... p?t=12712&

I also recommend that you read the following e-mail correspondance between Peter Mac and I:

Peter Mac assisted with my hair transplant this summer. He really knows a lot. The mail contains both information about Avodart/Proxiphen/Propecia/Revivogen etc. and. His replies are highlighted

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all I want to thank you for your genuine concern.

Secondly, I am very happy that you write to me now as I am in I
middle of a "crisis".

My hair is beginning to grow now (though they are quite thin at
the moment, but they are getting thicker all the time), so that
part is good.

Good to hear.

After the surgery I have grown my hair out "long" (the last two
years I have shaved my head) and it's now pretty obvious to me that
Propecia hasn't done me anything good in the front region. This is
very depressing, so I switched to Dutasteride aprox. a month ago.
I also added Nizoral 2% to my regimen. But I must admit that
Dutasteride is giving me major headaches, and I'm not sure they
will subside over
time.
As a result I have gone down to taking them every other day, but
that doesn't seem to help.

A couple thoughts on Propecia. First, finasteride takes at least 5
months to take action (that you can see). I advise propecia only
regrows hair at a rate of 1% per month and I like to encourage patients to give at at least a year before switching to dutasteride. Dutasteride triggers a chain of pharmacological actions different than finasteride. I know many patients that switched and had worse results with dutast. Now dutast supposedly inhibits more 5-ar than Propecia so in theory the results should be better. But the body is a complicated machine and our logical theories don't always pan out.
I know many patients that switched to dutast only to switch back to
finast.

My concern with Dutasteride is also that I have read that it
increases
Testosterone levels in the scalp (since it isn't converted into
DHT) and that is causing frontal loss.

It's possible. To be honest, I'm afraid of dutasteride because it's
so potent.

Will I take it some day? Sure, if Propecia completely stops working
I'll try it. I'd like to see long term studies as well. Last time
I checked they
couldn't account for how 50% of the dutast was metabolized by the
body.
Where
is it going? Now that's a little scary. We're talking world
leading chemists have no idea where this drug is going in the body.

I am considering my options now, and I'm thinking of going back to
Finasteride, only this time I will go for Proscar (the Merck
version)in order to save money so I can add something else to my regimen. I am thinking of Revivogen and/or spironolactone or Minoxidil. I am very
reluctantto use the latter though, as I have tried it in the past and my skin
was flaking like hell!

How long did you try Propecia? did you give it at least a year with
photographs taken before and after at the same hair length? That's
the only way to measure the results of finasteride. I would trim my hair to 1 or 2 cm then take photos and compare. that's the only way to analyze propecia (same quality photos, same hair length/style etc.) Pretend you're a doctor and analyze yourself.
I've been on propecia 9 months. At month 7 everyone said they noticed
the bottom of the crown was thicker. It took 7 months before anyone could see visual improvement. That's normal and expected.

I love Dr. Proctor's formula Proxiphen. It's expensive which is too
bad but it sure works. There is no flaking (almost never anyway) with
proxiphen as the minoxidil is compounded in a cream base.

I have read that spironolactone should convert the surplus Testosterone in
the scalp area into Oestrogen.
What do you think, I really hope you can help me out here.

Spironolactone is an antiandrogen that works in two ways. Primarily
it slows down the production of androgens in the adrenal glands and
ovaries (for women obviously if taken orally). Secondly it blocks the action of androgens (i.e. T and DHT).

Since men can only apply this topically it's not as potent as we'd
like, sadly.

In a review article written by Dr. Vera H. Price in The New England
Journal Of Medicine September 23, 1999, she writes

that "Spironolactone is a weak competitive inhibitor of the binding
of androgen to its receptor, and it decreases the synthesis of
testosterone as well.
It has some efficacy in the treatment of hirsutism. It seems to have little
efficacy in women with androgenetic alopecia, but no control studies
have been done and there are no data on hair count or hair weight, nor are there any photographic data."

As a side note, that's how nizoral works. Ketoconazole (active
ingredient) inhibits the sythenesis of ergosterol which is the same
pharmacological action that inhibitis the synthesis of DHT. Basically, both of the these products seem to compete with DHT and that's why they work.

If you're on finast T levels in the scalp only rise a small amount
(still within norms) so there's nothing to worry about. That's why adding spironolactone to the scalp is another weapon.

revivogen has free fatty acids and saw palmetto which may help. i
would only add it after you are using everything else (propecia, nizoral, spironolactone, minoxidil)

 

[fio]

Thanks, man. Real helpful info. Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to try it.

Did you experience any shedding? Since I have been consistently on both spironolactone and 5% minoxidil for a long time, I think I'm safe. What do you think?

 

[Buffboy]

Thanks, man. Real helpful info. Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to try it.

Did you experience any shedding? Since I have been consistently on both spironolactone and 5% minoxidil for a long time, I think I'm safe. What do you think?

Haven't experienced anything yet (I think). But you know what? I don't trust my eyes anymore. Today I can think my hair looks MUCH better and tomorrow I can think that my hair has never looked more awful. I'm going for the big picture. I don't care about shedding, as it's temporarily.

Remember to get on Finasteride (Proscar) and Nizoral 2% also. If you do so and add minoxidil (maybe Proxi instead) you can't really do more.

So you took your time and read the whole thread I linked to? So you know all about it not costing $100 a month because one vial can easily be stretched for 2-3 months?

 

[fio]

That's funny. I'm with you on judging the state of my hair. Drives me nuts. The shedding thing concerns me a little because I am so thin at the front that, if I lose any more, even if it is temporary, you'll see my scalp. I guess I'll just throw on some of that Toppik.

I tried finasteride. Was on it for a couple of years. It didn't seem like it did anything for me. You think I should try it again? I'm worried about its sides. That's why I switched to my latest regiment. I will definitely pick up some 2% Nizoral. Know of a cheap place on the net?

I did read the whole thread you sent - a couple of times, in fact. Thanks. I did see where you were able to stretch out the Proxi for 2-3 months. That's a good thing. With that in mind, I am surprised more people are not on it.

Anyway, I can't thank you enough for your input. It has been extremely helpful. I'll let you know how the Proxi works out.

 

[Buffboy]

That's funny. I'm with you on judging the state of my hair. Drives me nuts. The shedding thing concerns me a little because I am so thin at the front that, if I lose any more, even if it is temporary, you'll see my scalp. I guess I'll just throw on some of that Toppik.

Otherwise try DermMatch from http://www.dermmatch.com Check out Social_Drinker's results with DermMatch here: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... c&start=20

What I like about it is that it's SO cheap and lasts for 9 months aprox. I'm sure Toppik is equally good, but it's WAY more expensive

I tried finasteride. Was on it for a couple of years. It didn't seem like it did anything for me. You think I should try it again? I'm worried about its sides. That's why I switched to my latest regiment.

Are you WORRIED og did you in fact EXPERIENCE sides? I mean after 2 years you should know! I was on finasteride alone for 1 1/2 year without any visible results at the front, where my problem is. The thing is, I NOW know that finasteride is not enough if you want to maintain and regrow large amount of hair. The majority of success stories on these forums are through Big 3. So I will give it a year from now on my variation of Big 3 and then evaluate things. So I like you wasted precious time on finasteride alone because I was uneducated as hell.

I will definitely pick up some 2% Nizoral. Know of a cheap place on the net?

Where are you from?

I did read the whole thread you sent - a couple of times, in fact. Thanks. I did see where you were able to stretch out the Proxi for 2-3 months. That's a good thing. With that in mind, I am surprised more people are not on it.

It's because it's a one-man-company. No advertising like Rogaine and finasteride.

Anyway, I can't thank you enough for your input. It has been extremely helpful. I'll let you know how the Proxi works out.

You are most welcome.

 

[fio]

I'll check that Derm stuff out. Thanks for the lead. Toppik works great, but if I can save a couple of bucks - why not?

In terms of the sides I experienced with Finasteride, I definitley had less of a sex drive, I felt somewhat lethargic and I had some pounding in my heart. I don't know if this was all psychosamtic, but it all stopped a couple weeks after I was off the stuff. I wish I could be on it in conjunction with my other stuff, but I guess I'm one of those few that can't handle it. That's why I want to bulk up on some of the topical stuff so I can make up the difference.

In terms of the Nizoral 2%, there are a lot of sites on the net to pick from. I thought you made have had a source. I live in Southern California, USA just outside of Los Angeles

Talk to you later.

 

[Buffboy]

That's why I want to bulk up on some of the topical stuff so I can make up the difference.

Then Proxiphen is your choice as it's also DHT-inhibiting.

In terms of the Nizoral 2%, there are a lot of sites on the net to pick from. I thought you made have had a source. I live in Southern California, USA just outside of Los Angeles

Talk to you later.

That's the problem, I live in Denmark and has a EU-based vendor. Think you're better off with a vendor from your own country - you know customs and all that.

 

[fio]

I found a place on line http://www.nizoral2percent.com that sells Nizoral 2% for $12.95 per 120ML bottle when you buy 3 or more at a time. I guess I'll go for it, unless someone has found a better price elsewhere.

Good to talk to you. I'll be in touch.