Back with a new username since I had my old one saved on my old computer and have no idea what email address its associated with or what the password is...
For reference my thread is: here.
Alright, you guys know I write novels here instead of normal length posts. But please have a look at atleast some of this.
I really have no clue what's wrong with me!!! dutasteride (real avodart) seems to be both helping and hurting and sometimes doing nothing.
I have appointments with my derm who perscribed the dutasteride and my endocrinologist next week. I don't think my dermatologist has ever prescribed dutasteride to anyone before so I'm not counting on him knowing whats going on. I seriously doubt my endocrinologist has any experience with it either but I'm hoping she's the one who can figure out what might be up with me based on how I react to this stuff.
My problems
Diffuse loss with horrible, constant scalp pain and sometimes unbearable itch. At least NW3 now. Loss especially at the hairline is very quick and almost always accompanied by pain even worse than what I normally have. Hair is very wiry. Changed from med brown to lusterless almost black, in the past year seems to be more light with a lot of hairs turning totally colorless. The only place I see what I expect miniturization to look like is below my temples at the front of my sideburns...not where I expect to see it. All my other hair seems to just drop out, with the few remaining ones being the ones that made it through the transition from normal to dark and some moved onto no color at all now which is prob the end for those that held out that long. Also greasy and itchy all over, sexual problems and just feel terrible. But doctors don't do much, don't know, don't care.
Previous Treatments
Propecia about 6 months after pain and loss started. Forehead got greasier but the could have been things just getting worse at that early stage. Hairline receeded, didn't help the pain or itch anywhere. Didn't stop hair from going from normal to wire. Maybe I would have lost more, who knows. Stopped after 1 year. No sides I don't think but just gave up since I need more benefit than possible maintenance - i needed the pain to stop!
I'm not even going to list everything else I've tried for the pain. Nothing helped. Got the tiniest bit of regrowth on 15% Xandrox 2x/day used all over my head and then only in areas where hair remained (ie not temples). Only enough to see a bit in certain light in the mirror.
Tried finasteride again several months ago. Chest ache after a week or so. Never had that before during a whole year on it. Was almost like a muscle ache, no specific painful spots. Was concerned but stopped for other reasons. Hairline was affected by using or stopping finasteride as it got painful and worse during that time.
Reaction to Avodart
1. Skin cleared up which happened both times on finasteride but only lasted for a few days. On dutasteride it kept going (with the exceptions listed below).
2. No more greasy feeling all over! No more itch all over my body.
3. At first scalp pain and itch were bad. Then anywhere from 25 to 75% better but some days as bad as usual. Now bad again.
4. Chest pains like the last time I tried finasteride. Nipple changes a bit (were puffy a bit before anyway) but no specific pain or sensitivity there.
5. Penis shrinkage. Yes. Don't tell me no. I can tell...its WAY obvious. BUT this has happened to me before. Its part of what scared me off finasteride the second time. But it continued to happen when I wasn't on finasteride. Much smaller when flaccid and sometimes constricted to the point of being uncomfortable. I was already having issues with no sexual interest but no this did not seem to effect size erect. In others words I'm not saying finasteride or dutasteride permanently shrunk my penis but it was causing that to happen. Why it continued off finasteride I don't know. I'm more screwed up than normal people with male pattern baldness so its something with me being out of balance that the drugs seem to make happen more. I never saw it before that time on finasteride but I'm not gonna say that started it. At times on dutasteride I've been fine. OK, stop laughing now.
6. Chest started to bother me more...um plus #5 so I tried taking flax seed oil and zinc. Had a few days were I seemed to return to pre-dutasteride state. itchy, scalp hurt, greasy... skin looked terrible overnight but no chest pains. Chest seemed flatter. Posted here that I thought it was the supplements having an effect. When through what seemed like the first few days of dutasteride again.
7. This week another return to pre-dutasteride days!!! Nothing added this time. The thing that amazes me is how different my face can look in a days time. Things were bad Mon and Tue, improved somewhat Wed with zits that just appeared drying up overnight and basicly disappearing. But hair still hurts especially at hairline which has gotten worse by enough for me to notice...mainly cuz I pay attention cuz it hurts so bad. Skin doesn't feel as clean as earlier on dutasteride, face seems slightly greasy and oddly so do my hands. No all over itch though.
8. Chest is still bothering me and I am going to cut back to every other day until I talk to my doctors and maybe not take any more at all.
-----------------
SO.... WTF!!! I know one thing and that is dutasteride helped my one problem which was the all over my body itchy and greasy feeling. Plus it was nice to have my skin clear up. This was not as bad as the hairloss and scalp pain but it was by no means an insignificant problem.
What I'm afraid of now is with me not having a good theory of what's going on .... and being such a wreck (since dutasteride was the only thing I knew left to try) I can barely think straight to formulate one...and my doctors not knowing much about this they are just gonna tell me to stop it.
DHT is obviously part of my problem. I'm thinking I need either:
1. Less dutasteride which might block enough DHT to help as it did here and maybe help my hair if I'm on it longer. I'm convinced there's no way I'm growing any hair while this pain is going on which I know dutasteride had at least some effect on.
2. The same 0.5 mg/day dose with something else..back on the supplements or a real anti-aromatase. I'm willing to consider things that are a bit "extreme" because I'm not just trying to grow hair here...this is seriously making my life hell. If anybody has a real reference to this being used let me know. I don't need the paper, just the reference. There's a 99.99% chance I'll have access to it. I'm not gonna even suggest something like this to my doctors based on "bodybuilders do it".
3. More dutasteride! Probably not but it wasn't quiet enough for the pain. If we knew it worked topically without systemic effects maybe I could take a little orally and use it topically. spironolactone does nothing for me and I've got another post here (under VT23) that I think it might have even made things worse. I kept on it though since I don't have a theory to support that idea.
4. Ideally we would find out WTF is wrong with me based on this and the solution would have nothing to do with dutasteride or DHT at least not directly. Supposedly everything is "normal" though and until I asked for more tests just after starting dutasteride nobody was ever testing things besides testosterone and thyroid stuff.
OK....I gotta stop now. My mind just keeps going around and around with the few facts I have trying to sort this out and getting nowhere. I'm actually a biochemist and happen to help manage a large clinical laboratory (but we don't do the sorts of testing I need) so I should be very focused and scientific about this like Bryan but even since my problems started I've been such a wreck I haven't been able to focus. And no its not all happening because I'm upset about it...I've heard that far too much, its just a way for doctor's to get around the fact they don't know and don't really care to get into helping me find out.
For reference my thread is: here.
Alright, you guys know I write novels here instead of normal length posts. But please have a look at atleast some of this.
I really have no clue what's wrong with me!!! dutasteride (real avodart) seems to be both helping and hurting and sometimes doing nothing.
I have appointments with my derm who perscribed the dutasteride and my endocrinologist next week. I don't think my dermatologist has ever prescribed dutasteride to anyone before so I'm not counting on him knowing whats going on. I seriously doubt my endocrinologist has any experience with it either but I'm hoping she's the one who can figure out what might be up with me based on how I react to this stuff.
My problems
Diffuse loss with horrible, constant scalp pain and sometimes unbearable itch. At least NW3 now. Loss especially at the hairline is very quick and almost always accompanied by pain even worse than what I normally have. Hair is very wiry. Changed from med brown to lusterless almost black, in the past year seems to be more light with a lot of hairs turning totally colorless. The only place I see what I expect miniturization to look like is below my temples at the front of my sideburns...not where I expect to see it. All my other hair seems to just drop out, with the few remaining ones being the ones that made it through the transition from normal to dark and some moved onto no color at all now which is prob the end for those that held out that long. Also greasy and itchy all over, sexual problems and just feel terrible. But doctors don't do much, don't know, don't care.
Previous Treatments
Propecia about 6 months after pain and loss started. Forehead got greasier but the could have been things just getting worse at that early stage. Hairline receeded, didn't help the pain or itch anywhere. Didn't stop hair from going from normal to wire. Maybe I would have lost more, who knows. Stopped after 1 year. No sides I don't think but just gave up since I need more benefit than possible maintenance - i needed the pain to stop!
I'm not even going to list everything else I've tried for the pain. Nothing helped. Got the tiniest bit of regrowth on 15% Xandrox 2x/day used all over my head and then only in areas where hair remained (ie not temples). Only enough to see a bit in certain light in the mirror.
Tried finasteride again several months ago. Chest ache after a week or so. Never had that before during a whole year on it. Was almost like a muscle ache, no specific painful spots. Was concerned but stopped for other reasons. Hairline was affected by using or stopping finasteride as it got painful and worse during that time.
Reaction to Avodart
1. Skin cleared up which happened both times on finasteride but only lasted for a few days. On dutasteride it kept going (with the exceptions listed below).
2. No more greasy feeling all over! No more itch all over my body.
3. At first scalp pain and itch were bad. Then anywhere from 25 to 75% better but some days as bad as usual. Now bad again.
4. Chest pains like the last time I tried finasteride. Nipple changes a bit (were puffy a bit before anyway) but no specific pain or sensitivity there.
5. Penis shrinkage. Yes. Don't tell me no. I can tell...its WAY obvious. BUT this has happened to me before. Its part of what scared me off finasteride the second time. But it continued to happen when I wasn't on finasteride. Much smaller when flaccid and sometimes constricted to the point of being uncomfortable. I was already having issues with no sexual interest but no this did not seem to effect size erect. In others words I'm not saying finasteride or dutasteride permanently shrunk my penis but it was causing that to happen. Why it continued off finasteride I don't know. I'm more screwed up than normal people with male pattern baldness so its something with me being out of balance that the drugs seem to make happen more. I never saw it before that time on finasteride but I'm not gonna say that started it. At times on dutasteride I've been fine. OK, stop laughing now.
6. Chest started to bother me more...um plus #5 so I tried taking flax seed oil and zinc. Had a few days were I seemed to return to pre-dutasteride state. itchy, scalp hurt, greasy... skin looked terrible overnight but no chest pains. Chest seemed flatter. Posted here that I thought it was the supplements having an effect. When through what seemed like the first few days of dutasteride again.
7. This week another return to pre-dutasteride days!!! Nothing added this time. The thing that amazes me is how different my face can look in a days time. Things were bad Mon and Tue, improved somewhat Wed with zits that just appeared drying up overnight and basicly disappearing. But hair still hurts especially at hairline which has gotten worse by enough for me to notice...mainly cuz I pay attention cuz it hurts so bad. Skin doesn't feel as clean as earlier on dutasteride, face seems slightly greasy and oddly so do my hands. No all over itch though.
8. Chest is still bothering me and I am going to cut back to every other day until I talk to my doctors and maybe not take any more at all.
-----------------
SO.... WTF!!! I know one thing and that is dutasteride helped my one problem which was the all over my body itchy and greasy feeling. Plus it was nice to have my skin clear up. This was not as bad as the hairloss and scalp pain but it was by no means an insignificant problem.
What I'm afraid of now is with me not having a good theory of what's going on .... and being such a wreck (since dutasteride was the only thing I knew left to try) I can barely think straight to formulate one...and my doctors not knowing much about this they are just gonna tell me to stop it.
DHT is obviously part of my problem. I'm thinking I need either:
1. Less dutasteride which might block enough DHT to help as it did here and maybe help my hair if I'm on it longer. I'm convinced there's no way I'm growing any hair while this pain is going on which I know dutasteride had at least some effect on.
2. The same 0.5 mg/day dose with something else..back on the supplements or a real anti-aromatase. I'm willing to consider things that are a bit "extreme" because I'm not just trying to grow hair here...this is seriously making my life hell. If anybody has a real reference to this being used let me know. I don't need the paper, just the reference. There's a 99.99% chance I'll have access to it. I'm not gonna even suggest something like this to my doctors based on "bodybuilders do it".
3. More dutasteride! Probably not but it wasn't quiet enough for the pain. If we knew it worked topically without systemic effects maybe I could take a little orally and use it topically. spironolactone does nothing for me and I've got another post here (under VT23) that I think it might have even made things worse. I kept on it though since I don't have a theory to support that idea.
4. Ideally we would find out WTF is wrong with me based on this and the solution would have nothing to do with dutasteride or DHT at least not directly. Supposedly everything is "normal" though and until I asked for more tests just after starting dutasteride nobody was ever testing things besides testosterone and thyroid stuff.
OK....I gotta stop now. My mind just keeps going around and around with the few facts I have trying to sort this out and getting nowhere. I'm actually a biochemist and happen to help manage a large clinical laboratory (but we don't do the sorts of testing I need) so I should be very focused and scientific about this like Bryan but even since my problems started I've been such a wreck I haven't been able to focus. And no its not all happening because I'm upset about it...I've heard that far too much, its just a way for doctor's to get around the fact they don't know and don't really care to get into helping me find out.
