Current Progress 3-4 Months Scalp Massage And Exercise Plus Derma Rolling And Nizoral. | HairLossTalk Forums
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Current Progress 3-4 Months Scalp Massage And Exercise Plus Derma Rolling And Nizoral.

Discussion in 'Success Stories' started by MyThinningConfidence, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    Edit. I changed this post up to move my original pre-finasteride regime to this thread so my current thread is less of a massive text wall.

    Original Regime:
    • Derma Roller 1.5mm - weekly, Also worth noting that stamps are more effective and clearly better, the only reason I'm using a roller is because I couldn't find any quality stamps in Australia. I'm using a Dr. Roller
    • Nizoral - weekly
    • Zinc Pyrithione - daily
    • Scalp Massage - daily (I try to aim for 5 minutes daily, I expanded on scalp massages in this thread) The massages are based on Rob at Perfect Hair Health
      Scalp Exercise - Based on Tom Hagerty (WARNING! Improper technique of scalp exercises will cause rather bad forehead wrinkles)
    • Fish Oil - Taken casually, used to be daily
    • Lipogaine The Big 5 - Weekly (Added September 4th)

    Pictures: (periodic updates)
    Overall -
    https://imgur.com/a/KcCoKEU
    Hairline - https://imgur.com/a/AARrnqD


    Pictures: (
    I've got about 3000 pictures of my scalp now and I've been too lazy to update, if you want more pictures just ask, hair growth seems to be continuing steadily.)
    September Update

    Orginal Post -
    I've been in denial about this hair growth for awhile since people have always been so negative about not using minoxidil or finasteride and often those are just considered temporary options until you can afford a transplant. The whole hairloss community has been a pretty shitty place but it's understandable since hairloss makes you feel shitty and has emotions all over the place. A week ago I posted my gains to Reddit with a lot of positivity and since then the hair only continues to increase by the week. My hair currently looks great in terms of baldness but I'm not a fan of my haircut, I'm currently planning to grow my hair out thick and long so I'll update slowly on that over the year. I'm extremely happy with the results thus far, I actually had severely inhibiting depression and anxiety before this regrowth, I hadn't left my house in 4 months and I was borderline ready to kill myself, it's superficial but my hair meant so much to me and my identity especially as an artist around the alternative crowd.
    (Pictures don't even do justice to how badly I was balding, I had barely any hair to work with at all during the worst of it and it was impossible no matter how much I brushed or washed it to actually hide my scalp anymore.)

    The two biggest benefits to my hair growth was likely the 1.5mm derma roller, I've been seeing hair growth by the week since I started using it on the 11th of July. Aside from that scalp massages would be second, they got rid of the last of my dermatitis before even using Nizoral.

    There are some things to consider before considering my regime especially over minoxidil or finasteride, the former in most cases would be better. Primarily my regime is more for if you are on the fence about treatments with side effects, not everyone has perceivable sides and if something works for you that's great. Just like how genetics determine how we bald they also determine how we react to certain treatments. I do think mechanical stimulation would be beneficial in addition to those though.

    How do I plan to keep my hair
    I'm not entirely sure yet. I've been able to promote hair growth but I haven't actually stopped the balding process, much like using minoxidil without finasteride. Currently I'm hoping to be able to regrow hair faster than I lose it, I lost a lot of hair density over the last few years and I was in denial. I was balding up until earlier this year. Since I'm only 20 and it appears I balded at a relatively slow pace excluding the sheds I'm hoping I'm able to grow faster than I lose in the meantime until there are a better options for hair growth. I'll see how I go over the next few months but if I start losing a lot of ground I'll jump on dutasteride. As I get older the rate at which I bald will likely increase so if there ends up being no new treatments I will likely have no choice.
    Why I'm not using Minoxidil
    It's expensive, literally $50 a month here for the foam which means I'd have to get the liquid which is still expensive (cheapest I can find is $44 for a 3 month supply) for someone who can't even afford to go to University it's not ideal. The main downside to the liquid is that it's more difficult and time consuming to apply and takes a long time to dry, I'm lazy and I just want to put it in and go to sleep except if I do that it'd rub off onto my pillows and sheets and have negative consequences on my face. There are a lot of anecdotal reports of dark circles, water retention and wrinkles and in theory minoxidil inhibits collagen production although there are no in-vivo studies about it sadly. At that point I'd rather buy a wig and be done with it than trade my face for my hair. You can minimize the harm by just being careful with your application but it just seems like a lot for me considering the price and the one last major factor. Why do I want hair if I have to have minoxidil in it almost 24/7 making it all greasy?
    Why I'm not using Finasteride
    Honestly it was primarily just the barrier of it being a prescription, it's just less accessible, the sexual side effects don't bother me too much and I really love the idea of decreased body hair. The only potential side effect that bothers me is brain fog. Currently I'm experiencing regrowth so I'll be staying away from finasteride for now but if I start shedding and losing hair again I'll likely jump on it.

    Reddit Post:
    "Current progress on hairloss, I'm unsure if it's gotten any thicker in terms of follicle density although it's possible each individual follicle is thicker. Overall scalp condition has improved which gives it more life, folliculitis, scalp itch, excessive greasiness and shiny scalp qualities are no longer present. Hair seems to have more life, it's stronger, springy and can support its own weight as opposed to just flopping down.

    When I run my fingers through my hair it feels all fuzzy and prickly indicating there is hair growth although when I actually take pictures of my scalp there isn't really any terminal hair growth to be seen. Recently I took a single picture under rather poor lighting and I noticed there was actually hair there although it was incredibly thin and clear, some were even as long as 3-4cm. More likely than not this is hair that has already miniaturized and isn't in the process of regrowing. I'm going to dismiss this as hair regrowth until I can see plenty of visible terminal hairs growing from my scalp."

    Two instances worth adding, I was in a bathroom at a fast food restaurant with no hat on and I noticed under the light you couldn't see any of my scalp anymore, normally I always hated looking in bathroom mirrors and having to witness my awful scalp shining through so that was promising at the least.

    Also as we were leaving my sister was messing around on Snapchat and filmed me and was like "Ahhh you're on Anon Vlogs" and filmed around in the circle. When I saw the video being played back I noticed you couldn't really see any of my scalp on my crown or anything which was also a pleasant surprise. My haircut still looked stupid though, makes me feel like a overgrown twelve year old.

    These are mostly relevant since beforehand my hairloss was so bad I couldn't hide it, no matter how I brushed or styled my hair you could see my scalp and tell I was obviously balding pretty badly, now I can at least hide it a little although my fringe is a little thin considering my awful hairline and you can see through it as it moves around if it's greasy.
     
    #1 MyThinningConfidence, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  2. nohairnolife

    nohairnolife Established Member My Regimen

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    Looks like some progress but it's hard to tell, would be easier if you pulled your bangs up
     
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  3. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    True, I'll update the hairline one with some new pictures now, please let me know what you think.
     
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  4. nohairnolife

    nohairnolife Established Member My Regimen

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    It's definitely better than before. Only dermaroll and Nizoral? Interesting

    You might want to check out the big thread in Success Stories where this dude put keto and some other stuff in a topical and regrew like 2 norwoods without finasteride. I've been leaving nizoral on my head all day for a few days
     
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  5. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    I only use nizoral once a week as it's rather expensive, I use zinc pyrithione every single day which I forgot to add. There was one study I read with pretty good results from using nizoral daily, it's roughly equivalent to minoxidil 2% although gains are lost upon ceasing to use it. I only started using nizoral on the 6th of July so its benefits are harder to tell so far. Aside from those I've tested lots of random natural topicals. Currently testing lemon juice and deeper derma rolling since the 11th, stepped up to 1.5mm as 0.5mm felt like it was doing nothing.

    I originally started using lemon juice when I was younger and had a lot of acne, it helped clear it up and removed almost all of my blemishes. I still use it from time to time since it makes my skin glow and look dramatically better. That was pure anecdotal effects but I recently found a study that pointed to the fact that it had good results for the skin and increased collagen production. The only downside to using straight lemon juice is that it will make your skin sensitive to the sun and if you have too much contact with it, damage will be done fast. The sun is also beneficial for the hair so that part depends on lifestyle, it'd make more sense to combine the lemon juice with other topicals but I don't have a lot of resources to work with currently. (Probably worth adding for clarity sake, I'm not saying application of lemon juice has any benefit on hair growth, but it definitely helps the skin, I believe there could be some possibility it would help promote hair growth to some degree.)
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579659/

    I'll definitely check that thread out if I'm able to find it.
     
    #5 MyThinningConfidence, Aug 1, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  6. nohairnolife

    nohairnolife Established Member My Regimen

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    There's been a lot of talk about zinc on the cutting edge subforum

    The lemon juice thing reminds me of azelaic acid and some people have said that helped them
     
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  7. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    I've heard of it before and it does sound like they'd work under rather similar mechanisms. I looked at a brief article of it and it sounds rather promising, the effects of it seem to be primarily synergistic though so I'm not sure the effects of lemon juice can be compared. I remember hearing some stuff about azelaic acid awhile ago and looking briefly into it although I couldn't find anyone who had success using it and the people that did post using it never posted any pictures.
     
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  8. nohairnolife

    nohairnolife Established Member My Regimen

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    That dude in the other thread used it with like a jillion other things, I'm trying to isolate some of them and see what gave him such drastic results
     
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  9. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    Well from the article I read

    “When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.”

    Everything I'm reading about azelaic acid is extremely positive, there isn't really a lot of information on it though. It seemed to have rather positive results like 3 years ago and then no one did anything with it really since then. I'll have to dig through these forums and try to find some people with experience using it. It all seems too good to be true although it could have positive effects in some people, genetics also determine how effective certain treatments are.
     
    #9 MyThinningConfidence, Aug 1, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  10. Wiseboi

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    Still waiting for the pictures
     
  11. jake_b

    jake_b Member

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    I really do think the mechanical stuff (massage, rolling) does help. Not a cure in inself, but it’s free and it does seem to do something.
     
  12. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    I already posted pictures, they are the Imgur links, you just need to complete the URL since I'm a fresh account, I'll also update the pictures with my current progress today.

    edit. Here is the link to make it easy https://imgur.com/a/AARrnqD
     
    #12 MyThinningConfidence, Aug 4, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  13. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    I'm definitely starting to think so, currently my hairline is filling in more and more and some of the vellus hairs have turned a slight black colour, I'm starting to feel confident these might turn into full on terminal hairs, I'll update the Imgur album with these new pictures now.
     
  14. long hair

    long hair Member

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    how much the length of the the vellus hair ?
     
  15. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    They vary a lot, they mostly get larger the closer to the hairline they are. In the completely bald area of my scalp they are about 0.5cm currently then as you go up they get to about 2-3cm and when you reach my hairline I have some that are like 5cm or so. I'm actually wondering if I can dye them since there is actually quite a bit of hair there but it's practically invisible in all but very, very particular lighting. I'm noticing though that as they are getting longer and longer they are starting to be much easier to see and starting to appear in lighting where they never used to.

    edit.
    Here are some pictures to give you an idea.
    https://imgur.com/a/KsTFbM1
     
    #15 MyThinningConfidence, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  16. hairocaustdenier

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    Tbf mate you genuinely appear to be having some kind of progress here. It's extremely difficult to find anyone who is committed to updating the internet with their progress.
    I do find you Imgur pictures hard to look through in a chronological order though, the dates seem to be a bit jumbled up. Is there a way you could possibly collate you whole timeline in a coherent order?
    I don't want to seem demanding but I feel like it would help many.
    You're actually doing a great service to this community.

    How long have you been using your current regime?
     
  17. hairocaustdenier

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    Also, have you made any dietary changes, i.e foods that reduce arterial inflammation etc?
    I've read alot about how that and scalp calcification seems to be higher in men with male pattern baldness.
    I think I saw your reddit post where you posted the link to that science direct article that discuss's an alternative theory to the cause of male pattern baldness
     
  18. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    Thanks, this is my older thread when I wasn't so sure I was actually regrowing my hair. I have an updated thread I'm continually updating here. I ended up jumping on finasteride to help maintain my regrowth but there is a clear distinction between the pre and post finasteride parts. I'm currently on my 13th day of finasteride although I haven't posted an update since being on it. Finasteride has been going alright, there was an initial shedding on my crown and my hairline took a pretty bad hit and both still haven't recovered but the rest of my hair has thickened up a lot and has far more life. Probably a little too much life since it tends to just stand up a lot and refuse to go down for hours, looks a bit ridiculous but I don't have the heart to cut it since I'm growing it out. It seems like since I've been on finasteride my hair has been growing dramatically faster, it's like it's growing by the day. I've attached some pictures from yesterday by what I mean with my hair.

    I've been doing my treatments since the end of March and I've continually added things throughout, initially it was only zinc pyrithione and scalp massages.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. MyThinningConfidence

    MyThinningConfidence Established Member My Regimen

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    The only anti-inflammatory food I've added is fish oil although I've tried to add a few more healthy things to my diet but not under any strict rule. You should be able to help combat male pattern baldness and hairloss with some dietary changes but it's at the bottom of the stack in terms of effects and is much more difficult path but it's definitely something that can help if you're wanting to go all out and at the least you're being more healthy. I don't have a lot of luxury to chose my diet currently so it's not a side I've explored extensively. The alternative theory would've been this one also. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411
     
  20. Bornwithacurse225

    Bornwithacurse225 Established Member My Regimen

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    Which results are before lipogaine
     

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