Copper Peptiede & DHT

ugh

ugh

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ok, I see conflicting data regarding CP's and whether or not they inhibit dht?
 
jakeb

jakeb

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No studies are cited, but on Folligen.com (Dr. Pickart's site) it says: "The drug Propecia and natural copper ions in SRCPs are both potent inhibitors of DHT"

Would love to see more info back that up though.
 
jakeb

jakeb

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Oh here it is:

Is Copper Better Than Propecia® for Blocking DHT Production?

Recent research indicates that the DHT that harms hair follicles comes from the the skin's sebocytes and sweat glands (sebaceous glands). (Chen et al 1996) 5 alpha-Reductase, the enzyme system that converts testosterone into DHT occurs in two enzyme forms. The type 1 represents the 'cutaneous type'; it is located primarily in the skin's sebocytes but also in epidermal and follicular keratinocytes, dermal papilla cells and sweat glands as well as in fibroblasts. The type 2 is located mainly in the seminal vesicles, prostate and in the inner root sheath of the hair follicle.

Propecia® (Finasteride), which has a higher affinity for the type 2 form, is best suited for for controlling prostate enlargement. It also must be administered by pills that spread the drug throughout the body.

Copper ion in the skin is more effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter). No other metal has these effects.

The application of SRCPs may provide sufficient copper ion into the hair follicle area to block DHT production in the scalp. Metabolically active copper ion (that is, copper ion free to block 5-alpha reductase) in the human body exists at about 1 microgram per milliliter in the blood and less in the skin. While the uptake of ionic copper from Copper-Peptides applied to the scalp is very low, human experiments by Professor John Sorenson (University of Arkansas) have found that they can raise copper ion levels in the skin to the effective level of 1 microgram per milliliter.
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hair_tomorrow

hair_tomorrow

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jakeb said:
Oh here it is:

Is Copper Better Than Propecia® for Blocking DHT Production?

...
Copper ion in the skin is more effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter). No other metal has these effects.

The application of SRCPs may provide sufficient copper ion into the hair follicle area to block DHT production in the scalp. ...
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[/quote]

So to those in the know - what's the deal? Is ths particular copper already in existence in one of the more well known treatments like folligen or tricomin (is so, they haven't done any wonders for me after 3 years), or do we have to purchase the base copper in bulk and mix up our own solution the kitchen sink?

Anybody know?
 
C

CCS

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hair today gone tomorrow said:
killbill123 said:
[quote="hair today gone tomorrow":baf53]
ugh said:
ok, I see conflicting data regarding CP's and whether or not they inhibit dht?
Click to expand...

they do not inhibit dht.

topical spironolactone does...so does revivogen
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Revivogen is crap, imo.
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it may NOT have worked for you...but it is far from crap.

it works...although not as well as propecia.[/quote:baf53]

It only works where you apply it, and is greasy. I'm not so sure about it being worse than propecia.
 
C

CCS

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hair_tomorrow said:
jakeb said:
Oh here it is:

Is Copper Better Than Propecia® for Blocking DHT Production?

...
Copper ion in the skin is more effective in inhibiting the type 1 form which is primarily producing the DHT that damages follicles and can be administered locally to the skin. Sugimoto et al (Sugimito 1995) found that copper ion is a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase, inhibiting both types of 5-alpha reductase (both type 1 and type 2) that produce DHT and is the only metal to do so. Copper ion inhibits (50% reduction in activity) type 1 alpha reductase at 1.9 micromolar (0.12 micrograms copper ion per milliliter) and type 2 alpha reductase at 19.2 microM (1.2 micrograms copper ion per milliliter). No other metal has these effects.

The application of SRCPs may provide sufficient copper ion into the hair follicle area to block DHT production in the scalp. ...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So to those in the know - what's the deal? Is ths particular copper already in existence in one of the more well known treatments like folligen or tricomin (is so, they haven't done any wonders for me after 3 years), or do we have to purchase the base copper in bulk and mix up our own solution the kitchen sink?

Anybody know?[/quote]

The ones in Tricomin are similar but different from the ones naturally in your body. Dr. Packart wanted to sell some, but the patent was owned by Tricomin. So he made random ones in hopes that some would be good. According to HIS animal tests, folligen works. I consider folligen experimental, and would rather use Tricomin, which was tested in FDA phase II trials.

You can't get the CPs in bulk without a business license, and you can't make them yourself. Copper ions will burn your scalp and do you no good.
 
hair_tomorrow

hair_tomorrow

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Too bad. I used folligen for awhile and didn't like the way it applied as much as tricomin - plus I've always heard that tricomin had the "better" cps in it anyway.

Joe Zix has a recipe for making your own copper peptide topical - I haven't been over to his site for awhile - but I'm pretty sure he provides a source for buying some kind of copper.

Guess I'll just stick w/ tricomin for now :)

Thanks for the info.
 
C

CCS

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you can't make any good ones yourself. do not try. that guy does not know what he is talking about.
 
E

eddy_simpson

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hair today gone tomorrow said:
ugh said:
ok, I see conflicting data regarding CP's and whether or not they inhibit dht?
Click to expand...

they do not inhibit dht.

topical spironolactone does...so does revivogen
Click to expand...


hair today gone tomorrow why do you pretend that you are remotely knowledgeable about what inhibits dht and what doesnt.

copper peptides do indeed inhibit dht to a degree, although that doesnt necessarily infer that tricomin or folligen do.

spironolactone doesnt inhibit the production of dht, it blocks dht from binding to the androgen receptor.
 
paximperia

paximperia

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According to hairlosstalk.com, Tricomin is not listed as a DHT inhibitor. Not all hair growth products need to block DHT (e.g. Minoxidil).

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/research/me ... nt1men.htm

Here's another site that suggests copper-peptides are not a DHT inhibitor.

"While copper peptides alone will most likely not be enough to stave off future hair loss or regrow lost hair, the addition of a copper peptide treatment to one’s hair loss regimen that includes a DHT-inhibitor like Propecia and a growth stimulator such as minoxidil can likely be extremely beneficial."

http://www.regrowshair.com/non-surgical- ... treatment/

Is there a reputable clinical study proving the point?
 
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