Copper peptides work, new study.......

[michael barry]

A very intelligent gentleman over at hairsite named James Bond posted this new South Korean study. Its short and to the point. Good read for all. This copper peptide complex is the same alanine/histidine/lysene complex in tricomin.

"P38 THE EFFECTS ON HAIR GROWTH OF TRIPEPTIDE-COPPER COMPLEX L-ALANINE-L-HISTIDINE-L-LYSINE-CU2+(AHK-CU) IN CULTURED HUMAN OCCIPITAL DERMAL PAPILLA CELLS
Pyo HK, Yoo HG, Choi SJ, Won CH, Chung JH, Cho KH, Eun HC, Kim KH
Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Laboratory of Cutaneous Aging & Hair Biology Research, Clinical Research Institute, Seoul National University Hospital, Seoul, Korea

INTRODUCTION: Tripeptide copper complex L-Alanyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine Cu2+ (AHK-Cu) is a growth factor for many kinds of cells. AHK-Cu is also known to increase growth factors such as VEGF and FGF, and to promote wound healing. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of tripeptide copper complex L-Alanyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine Cu2+ (AHK-Cu) on hair growth. METHODS: Cultured human dermal papilla cells (DPCs) were exposed to AHK-Cu (1 x 10-9 mol/L). The cytotoxicity and proliferation of cultured human DPCs were evaluated by MTT assay (3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyl tetrazolium bromide). Annexin V-FITC staining was used for identifying apoptotic cells. We measured the expression of caspase-3, PARP (poly ADP-ribose polymerase), Bcl-2, and Bax by Western blot. We measured the length of the hair follicle in vitro organ culture. RESULTS: AHK-cu stimulated growth of DPCs. Apoptotic cells were decreased compared with control. The level of caspase-3 and PARP was decreased in AHK-cu treated group than serum-free control. In human hair follicle organ culture, the elongation of hair was increased over 155% in AHK-cu treated group. CONCLUSION: AHK-Cu seems to promote the survival of human DPCs by anti-apoptotic effects. Those results were confirmed by the decrease of the expression of caspase-3 and PARP, and by the increase of the ratio of Bcl-2/Bax. AHK-cu promotes the growth of human hair follicle and also has anti-apoptotic effects on the DPCs, which may play an important role in hair growth. "



Impressive that it works on Dermal papilla cells. Thats where much of the action is.

 

[hairhaircomeagain]

Nice........

Thanks mike

"This copper peptide complex is the same alanine/histidine/lysene complex in tricomin."

This is the copper peptide that Red Rose psoted about in another posting.
http://skinactives.com/products/copper_peptide.htm

Cant see the ingredients but do all pepper peptides have the copper peptide complex that are mentioned above ?

 

[Aplunk1]

Yep...

it would seem that Tricomin's best results are on those of whom have "thinning" hair.

 

[EasyEd]

What can I get that has copper peptides???

 

[thylax]

yes, me2. where can I find that?

 

[ShedMaster]

folligen on this website.

 

[JWM]

This is nothing new guys. These products have been around forever.

Here are the problems:

1) Folligen is just random peptides and does not contain the specific peptides used in the Tricomin study.

2) The Tricomin available to the public is NOT the same concentration that was used in the FDA trials. It is much weaker. Of course some argue that you could conceivably compensate by using much MORE of Tricomin, but at close to $50 a bottle, who wants to do that if it MIGHT help?

 

[Bryan]

2) The Tricomin available to the public is NOT the same concentration that was used in the FDA trials. It is much weaker.

We've been told by someone at ProCyte that the concentration in Tricomin is somewhere BETWEEN the two that were tested in their clinical trial (1.25% and 2.5%), but "closer to the higher one". Sounds to me like it's probably 2%.

Bryan

 

[Apoc]

I don't know why are they doing useless studies on things like copper peptides, iron deficency etc. instead of spending money on some new ideas. FFS if these things would have worked we wouldn't be talking here right now.

 

[Bryan]

FFS if these things would have worked we wouldn't be talking here right now.

Hmmm...minoxidil and finasteride have been PROVEN to work, but we're still talking about THEM, aren't we? :wink:

Bryan

 

[viperfish]

A lack of positive user feedback is my problem with them.

 

[Apoc]

FFS if these things would have worked we wouldn't be talking here right now.

Hmmm...minoxidil and finasteride have been PROVEN to work, but we're still talking about THEM, aren't we? :wink:

Bryan

That's why because they work. Not consistently for all people but to some degree they do. If Curis released their drug and it would work 100% there would be only one page on the internet regarding hariloss and it would say: "Don't want to be bald? Curis has the answer!"

And you don't see many studies reassuring us that finasteride is the best. It was tested by FDA, they approved it, end of story. If copper peptides work why don't they make a FDA test? Probably because they don't work and every serious company knows that it would only lose money if they FDA tested them. I know it's hard to come to terms that you will lose your hair with current drugs available at some point but it always makes me a bit angry when I see a brand new study convincing us that we should take iron supplements... all those laboratories and they keep testing stuff everyone tried before. Pumping elaborate testing, numbers, statistics... ffs it's copper and iron, no need to go through all that. Just get 20 guys load them up with this stuff in a reasonable manner and if they grow hair... well good luck getting those results.

 

[ang_99]

I guess most things are geared towards helping keep what you have longer and not really all that great at regrowing. Having said that if CP does help you keep what you have a bit longer then hell, I'm all for it.

I do subscribe to the cocktail effect though, if you look at other diseases a cocktail of meds are usually needed to help keep the disease at bay for a while, I think hair loss is probably simalar, just take the big 4 or 5 things that show promiss and swallow it or throw it on your head and hope for the best. I guess CP can be considered one of those things to add to your cocktail.

 

[Bryan]

If copper peptides work why don't they make a FDA test?

They don't have the money to do that. Not anywhere NEARLY enough money.

Probably because they don't work and every serious company knows that it would only lose money if they FDA tested them.

I take it you believe neither the studies on copper peptides, nor Procyte's ealy trial on Tricomin, nor Dr. Proctor's considerable experience with SODs?

Bryan

 

[Apoc]

No I don't believe any of those studies because of a simple reason: Their test substances never had a major positive response from it's users. In my oppinion all they are trying to achieve is a name for themselves or for some scientist to get his doctorate. But in reality they serve no purpose because no matter how good it looks on the paper in reality it has very little effect on the real problem. Serum levels, follicle thickening, resting cycle shortening, DHT levels droping... all a bunch of crap if it doesn't achieve at least a 50% success when put on someones head (and I don't mean their test subjects) and achieve some regrowth not just maintenance. If all those things they write are true you would be regrowing hair not just maintaining at best.

And when money is concerned, FDA trials wouldn't mean squat if they came up with something that actualy regrew hair. People would be buying that stuff like crazy, FDA approved or not. All we want is results not laboratory test outcomes.

In the end all they want is to make money but alas with the internet available and people getting more and more educated to separate truth from lies it's not easy to make a test and then say: Oh buy this stuff and you will be Brad Pitt in a matter of months. Look our test shows it works.

 

[icon smith]

Good grief, is there anything worse than a balding cynic? :wink:

 

[michael barry]

Apoc,

You can test a hair growth stimulant on yourself in a way thats easy to mark the results. Spray some minoxidil or copper peptides or proanthocyanidins every day on a portion of your forearm for say.........8 months. Take pictures at the begining and the end under outdoor light.

Look at the results and report back to us (post em' too). You can test anti-androgen topicals this way also. I did it with revivogen on my wrist for just a little over two months. I was satisfied that it really worked. It didn't eliminate my wrist hair, but it damn sure suppressed it. Crinagen, sorry to say (because I wanted to believe in that stuff) did nothing for me on the other wrist. I didnt take pics, I just compared the wrists to each other by the way, but wish I had now.

There are pictures of Bryan over a two years period at the hairlossgallery on this site. He used prox-n and NANO shampoo. No anti-androgens and regrew some hair. FDA phase 3 trials are very expensive man. If youre not a big drug company...........it will make you charge alot more for youre product to recoup the cost. Graftcyte financed tricomin through two phases, but pulled it out of the big phase three tests. It did well in the first two. If they paid for phase three, and tricomin performed slightly better than minoxidil (but for different reasons), would you be willing to pay $80 a bottle for it instead of 47?

Sucks doesnt it? The constant uncertainty of which products are really best, why cant they test naturals, etc. ? I hate it too, but this is all we have.

 

[Bryan]

No I don't believe any of those studies because of a simple reason: Their test substances never had a major positive response from it's users.

By your evidently very strict standards, NOTHING has a "major positive response". But I suggest that you might want to relax those strict standards somewhat: for many guys, even an inhibition of further loss is something greatly to be desired.

In my oppinion all they are trying to achieve is a name for themselves or for some scientist to get his doctorate.

Oh, ok!

But in reality they serve no purpose because no matter how good it looks on the paper in reality it has very little effect on the real problem. Serum levels, follicle thickening, resting cycle shortening, DHT levels droping... all a bunch of crap if it doesn't achieve at least a 50% success when put on someones head (and I don't mean their test subjects) and achieve some regrowth not just maintenance.

Like I said before, even just simple MAINTENANCE is a worthy goal.

And when money is concerned, FDA trials wouldn't mean squat if they came up with something that actualy regrew hair. People would be buying that stuff like crazy, FDA approved or not. All we want is results not laboratory test outcomes.

I suppose the bottom-line of your complaint is simply that the products we have nowadays don't work as well as you'd like them to. Obviously, nobody except the rare excellent responder is going to end up looking like Brad Pitt, even with the very best treatments that we have available at the current time! :wink: But to go beyond that and imply that copper-peptides are totally worthless and don't work at all is an obvious overreaction on your part. If you refuse to use something just because it doesn't cause as much regrowth as you'd like, then you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Use a good mix of the best treatments we have available, and stop pissing and moaning about how they're not working as well as you'd like them to. Trust me, it's a LOT better than losing your hair completely!

Bryan

 

[Apoc]

Michael Barry: If I wanted to grow or suppres my arms hair I would, but I don't have problems with growing those.

Bryan: Believe me I tried quite a few: propecia, minoxidil, flutamide, Nizoral. All of them had (except the shampoo) major sides for me but flut was the worst as I had developed sever stomach pains that I could barely stand up straight. I wasted hundreds if not thousands of dollars on all this crap and no success. After two years of propecia and no maintanance and no regrowth I cut my hair to 1/4 inch and said: screw it. Now I'd love to get my hair back but I think that these drugs are very bad for you. The only thing they guarantee for me is that you will get sides from them and that is what pisses me off the most.

Couple of years back I was reading every study I could find, going WOW look this appears to have effect... now I know better than to look at some Korean studies that are studying something that was around for ages. I wouldn't mind if they were studying something new and previously completely unrelated to hairloss but same old stuff again and again? Give me a break.

And it can be done without major funding if you look at Curis. They came up with a completely new product. If it will work remains to be seen but at least they are being scientists and are developing something new. That's what I like to see, new ideas to more things forward not recycling old ones. That's a study we all like to see.

 

[hairhaircomeagain]

I wonder why Dr. Lee never looked at Copper Peptides or am I wrong..Does he have a product with Copper peptides?