Contacting Mew
- Thread starter Cassin
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Cassin
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Ok ok ok....
I'm thinking of creating a sticky for this section on finasteride sides to help everyone out. I wanted Mews help with a specific topic which at this time he has nothing to add and that is 100% ok.
But as for the sticky...would you guys find a finasteride side effects thread that is factual with no conjecture helpful? And one that I lock so there is no replies? Just facts. If you guys want to discuss something you can make threads about the links but I was thinking something firm that doesn't turn into a flame war could be of use.
I'm thinking of creating a sticky for this section on finasteride sides to help everyone out. I wanted Mews help with a specific topic which at this time he has nothing to add and that is 100% ok.
But as for the sticky...would you guys find a finasteride side effects thread that is factual with no conjecture helpful? And one that I lock so there is no replies? Just facts. If you guys want to discuss something you can make threads about the links but I was thinking something firm that doesn't turn into a flame war could be of use.
It’s an interesting idea, Cassin. Who would be in charge of putting together this sticky? As I’m sure you are aware, there are two strong sides to the debate, which results in a number of interpretations of the existing data on Finasteride. I dabble in editing some Wikipedia articles and am aware of some of their standards and regulations. I feel if this sticky is to be truly helpful, it should be as unbiased and neutral as possible. References from both sides of the debate as it were should be considered.
These are a few suggestions based off the Wikipedia standards:
1. The article should include cited sources. Without a source, it’s just word of mouth and cannot truly remain neutral.
2. Sources should be high quality and verifiable. Sources cannot include message board posts (personal experiences), youtube videos, word of mouth (“my doctor said…â€) or anything else that cannot be independently verified as fact.
3. Sources are best left to interpretation by medical professionals. For example, we’ve debated a popular study that indicated rats experienced penile tissue damage as a result of Finasteride use. While this is an important outcome which should necessitate further testing on humans, the study did not explicitly conclude that Finasteride would cause the same effects on humans. If this were the case, it would need to be interpreted by secondary or tertiary studies that reach this determination.
4. Both sides of the debate need to be represented. However, this doesn’t mean that each side needs to be represented equally. Each side needs to be represented based on verifiable facts. If one side is supported by more facts, this doesn’t mean that the article is biased one way or another. This also doesn’t mean that the other side should lower its standards on quality of references to represent an equal opposition.
Hopefully we can create a sticky that reaches a strong neutral standpoint that everyone can be happy with.
These are a few suggestions based off the Wikipedia standards:
1. The article should include cited sources. Without a source, it’s just word of mouth and cannot truly remain neutral.
2. Sources should be high quality and verifiable. Sources cannot include message board posts (personal experiences), youtube videos, word of mouth (“my doctor said…â€) or anything else that cannot be independently verified as fact.
3. Sources are best left to interpretation by medical professionals. For example, we’ve debated a popular study that indicated rats experienced penile tissue damage as a result of Finasteride use. While this is an important outcome which should necessitate further testing on humans, the study did not explicitly conclude that Finasteride would cause the same effects on humans. If this were the case, it would need to be interpreted by secondary or tertiary studies that reach this determination.
4. Both sides of the debate need to be represented. However, this doesn’t mean that each side needs to be represented equally. Each side needs to be represented based on verifiable facts. If one side is supported by more facts, this doesn’t mean that the article is biased one way or another. This also doesn’t mean that the other side should lower its standards on quality of references to represent an equal opposition.
Hopefully we can create a sticky that reaches a strong neutral standpoint that everyone can be happy with.
That's great, and of course it will be helpful. New people are asking the same questions over and over again.cassin said:Ok ok ok....
I'm thinking of creating a sticky for this section on finasteride sides to help everyone out. I wanted Mews help with a specific topic which at this time he has nothing to add and that is 100% ok.
But as for the sticky...would you guys find a finasteride side effects thread that is factual with no conjecture helpful? And one that I lock so there is no replies? Just facts. If you guys want to discuss something you can make threads about the links but I was thinking something firm that doesn't turn into a flame war could be of use.
- First of all, people should be aware of that continuing the treatment despite of side effects like Merck encourages them to is dangerous, because most of the severe side effects from Propecia comes from excessive estrogen, and this may lead to secondary hypogonadism. People should beware of testicular aching, and quit the treatment immediately if they notice any sexual side effects.
- According to Merck, everything should be normal within 2 weeks after stopping the treatment.
- If people don't recover within 3 weeks, they should use large amounts of zinc picolinate for a while. We're talking about 50 - 100 mg zinc a day here. If they don't want to do that, now is the time to see a doctor. Large amounts of zinc works as an aromatase inhibitor, and will shift the testosterone/estrogen ratio in favor of testosterone again. It's recommended by Dr. Shippen, who's treating estrogen dominance with 100 mg zinc and 3 grams of vitamin C a day. Everything should be taken before bed, and the treatment should be adjusted according to morning erections - the most important indicator of a healthy testosterone/estrogen ratio. The zinc treatment must be stopped when you get a solid morning erection. Continuing further, will suppress the estrogen level too much, and it'll cause a lot of side effects like aching/cracking joints, lethargy, reduced libido and ED/impotence. The zinc treatment may be repeated when it's needed. Eventually, the condition should stabilize.
- Gynecomastia may be removed with Andractim.
Now, if you really want to make an important change and help people - you should make a sticky thread in the "Antiandrogens & Androgen Blockers" forum, and tell people to do a blood test to obtain baseline values BEFORE starting treatment with Propecia. If they develop PFS, they'll have evidence - and hopefully get the help they need.
These hormone values should be mapped; LH, FSH, testosterone (total and free), estrogen (estradiol/E2), prolactin and SHBG.
To those who're NOT experiencing any problems with Propecia, how do you think you'll be able to help people that do? By comforting them with statistics and the power of the nocebo effect? Propecia has obviously not been studied properly, so you better keep information from Merck and the FDA out of this.
Enden brings up a good point: would this sticky be geared towards helping individuals with existing side effects, or act as a resource for people considering Finasteride treatments? Or both?
Propeciahelp already exists and is primarily there to support people with existing symptoms. There are also a number of threads here on that subject as well. I interpreted cassin’s post that this sticky would exist to outline potential side effects of the drug (which would include statistics, studies, persistence, etc). Enden has a substantial existing thread that is aimed at helping individuals manage their side effects. To me, these are two different subjects and possibly should be represented in two separate sickies. But again, I may have misinterpreted the purpose of this and it might be better left to others to provide input on the content.
It might be a good idea to define what the purpose is, as well as the target audience. Otherwise, it’s just going to turn into a big mess of everybody wanting to throw their piece in and probably end up as a big flame war! I think it’s a good opportunity for everybody to convene and create something that everybody can be happy with.
Propeciahelp already exists and is primarily there to support people with existing symptoms. There are also a number of threads here on that subject as well. I interpreted cassin’s post that this sticky would exist to outline potential side effects of the drug (which would include statistics, studies, persistence, etc). Enden has a substantial existing thread that is aimed at helping individuals manage their side effects. To me, these are two different subjects and possibly should be represented in two separate sickies. But again, I may have misinterpreted the purpose of this and it might be better left to others to provide input on the content.
It might be a good idea to define what the purpose is, as well as the target audience. Otherwise, it’s just going to turn into a big mess of everybody wanting to throw their piece in and probably end up as a big flame war! I think it’s a good opportunity for everybody to convene and create something that everybody can be happy with.