Conflicting Dutasteride Study Regarding Serum DHT Reduction

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2051415820926301

Does anyone have access to the full study and mind sharing?

 

[Hairful]

I know Kevin haircafe has subscription to these journals sites, might be worth a try to send him a message .

 

[corkmeister]

https://sci-hub.se/https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2051415820926301

 

[losingbattle88]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2051415820926301

Does anyone have access to the full study and mind sharing?

No Wonder I almost went bald on dutasteride. That sh*t spikes your T to the roof. Doing alot better on finasteride.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

https://sci-hub.se/https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2051415820926301

Thanks

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

No Wonder I almost went bald on dutasteride. That sh*t spikes your T to the roof. Doing alot better on finasteride.

T increased roughly the same amount as in other studies. The real concern is the lack of DHT inhibition. Only about 40%. The authors state that it was due to increased DHEA conversion to T then to DHT but I don't understand how as this still requires 5AR. They did this study on men with very large prostates. I wish they would have performed the same type of study with Finasteride.

 

[losingbattle88]

T increased roughly the same amount as in other studies. The real concern is the lack of DHT inhibition. Only about 40%. The authors state that it was due to increased DHEA conversion to T then to DHT but I don't understand how as this still requires 5AR. They did this study on men with very large prostates. I wish they would have performed the same type of study with Finasteride.

Well we dont have enlarged prostates. So we would have better outcome.

 

[Hairful]

Thing is why would you use dutasteride for hairloss anyway. Duta blocks all isoenzymes of 5ar and iirc the type 1 is necessary in brain more than type 2. So more risk of brain fog

If you don’t experience sides good for you though, I just won’t risk it and I don’t want total DHT inhibition anyway.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Thing is why would you use dutasteride for hairloss anyway. Duta blocks all isoenzymes of 5ar and iirc the type 1 is necessary in brain more than type 2. So more risk of brain fog

If you don’t experience sides good for you though, I just won’t risk it and I don’t want total DHT inhibition anyway.

dutasteride has been shown to be neuroprotective. I had brain fog on finasteride. On dutasteride, I have a very clear mind, possibly better than before any 5AR. This is anecdotal, but there is another thread in this section where I explain why I think the whole allopregnanolone/brain fog hype with dutasteride is way overblown for the standard .5 mg dose.

My question though is, if dutasteride only inhibited 40% serum DHT in the men with oversized prostates in the study, would Finasteride have faired worse? Is this 40% reduction the best 5AR inhibitors can do in extreme cases? To my knowledge, this is the only study that has shown a 5AR failed to perform as expected. There are plenty of reports of people who don't respond to finasteride or dutasteride and actually have blood work showing DHT remaining elevated. Forums just chalked it up to either fake meds or DHT tests being horribly inaccurate. I was hoping this study would elucidate more as to the mechanisms of the failed complete DHT inhibition but they don't provide any plausible explanations.

 

[losingbattle88]

dutasteride has been shown to be neuroprotective. I had brain fog on finasteride. On dutasteride, I have a very clear mind, possibly better than before any 5AR. This is anecdotal, but there is another thread in this section where I explain why I think the whole allopregnanolone/brain fog hype with dutasteride is way overblown for the standard .5 mg dose.

My question though is, if dutasteride only inhibited 40% serum DHT in the men with oversized prostates in the study, would Finasteride have faired worse? Is this 40% reduction the best 5AR inhibitors can do in extreme cases? To my knowledge, this is the only study that has shown a 5AR failed to perform as expected. There are plenty of reports of people who don't respond to finasteride or dutasteride and actually have blood work showing DHT remaining elevated. Forums just chalked it up to either fake meds or DHT tests being horribly inaccurate. I was hoping this study would elucidate more as to the mechanisms of the failed complete DHT inhibition but they don't provide any plausible explanations.

dutasteride has been shown to be neuroprotective. I had brain fog on finasteride. On dutasteride, I have a very clear mind, possibly better than before any 5AR. This is anecdotal, but there is another thread in this section where I explain why I think the whole allopregnanolone/brain fog hype with dutasteride is way overblown for the standard .5 mg dose.

My question though is, if dutasteride only inhibited 40% serum DHT in the men with oversized prostates in the study, would Finasteride have faired worse? Is this 40% reduction the best 5AR inhibitors can do in extreme cases? To my knowledge, this is the only study that has shown a 5AR failed to perform as expected. There are plenty of reports of people who don't respond to finasteride or dutasteride and actually have blood work showing DHT remaining elevated. Forums just chalked it up to either fake meds or DHT tests being horribly inaccurate. I was hoping this study would elucidate more as to the mechanisms of the failed complete DHT inhibition but they don't provide any plausible explanations.

I have used both dutasteride and finasteride seperately and get zero Brain fog from both. I feel No difference, Scalp dht is what matters the most but I also applied dutasteride to My scalp while on oral and My hair got massacred anyway.

 

[Hairful]

dutasteride has been shown to be neuroprotective. I had brain fog on finasteride. On dutasteride, I have a very clear mind, possibly better than before any 5AR. This is anecdotal, but there is another thread in this section where I explain why I think the whole allopregnanolone/brain fog hype with dutasteride is way overblown for the standard .5 mg dose.

My question though is, if dutasteride only inhibited 40% serum DHT in the men with oversized prostates in the study, would Finasteride have faired worse? Is this 40% reduction the best 5AR inhibitors can do in extreme cases? To my knowledge, this is the only study that has shown a 5AR failed to perform as expected. There are plenty of reports of people who don't respond to finasteride or dutasteride and actually have blood work showing DHT remaining elevated. Forums just chalked it up to either fake meds or DHT tests being horribly inaccurate. I was hoping this study would elucidate more as to the mechanisms of the failed complete DHT inhibition but they don't provide any plausible explanations.

That’s interesting, opposite to what I imagine would happen but we also have the example of Ashton Kutcher who was on Avodart for a decade in his prime and looks like had no issues with brain or sexual judging from his performances and relationships.

There are other pathways to DHT, perhaps in prostate abnormal pathology, those pathways are used more.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

T increased roughly the same amount as in other studies. The real concern is the lack of DHT inhibition. Only about 40%. The authors state that it was due to increased DHEA conversion to T then to DHT but I don't understand how as this still requires 5AR. They did this study on men with very large prostates. I wish they would have performed the same type of study with Finasteride.

yeah this study is useless without doing the same process against Finasteride sadly. This very same study could also mean that Finasteride is even worse than Dutasteride in this very same scenario which is brutal

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

dutasteride has been shown to be neuroprotective. I had brain fog on finasteride. On dutasteride, I have a very clear mind, possibly better than before any 5AR. This is anecdotal, but there is another thread in this section where I explain why I think the whole allopregnanolone/brain fog hype with dutasteride is way overblown for the standard .5 mg dose.

My question though is, if dutasteride only inhibited 40% serum DHT in the men with oversized prostates in the study, would Finasteride have faired worse? Is this 40% reduction the best 5AR inhibitors can do in extreme cases? To my knowledge, this is the only study that has shown a 5AR failed to perform as expected. There are plenty of reports of people who don't respond to finasteride or dutasteride and actually have blood work showing DHT remaining elevated. Forums just chalked it up to either fake meds or DHT tests being horribly inaccurate. I was hoping this study would elucidate more as to the mechanisms of the failed complete DHT inhibition but they don't provide any plausible explanations.

yeah its to be expected finasteride would have worked even worse

I guess its mandatory to test your DHT when before and after starting finasteride/Duta to be sure its working on you or not.

 

[losingbattle88]

That’s interesting, opposite to what I imagine would happen but we also have the example of Ashton Kutcher who was on Avodart for a decade in his prime and looks like had no issues with brain or sexual judging from his performances and relationships.

There are other pathways to DHT, perhaps in prostate abnormal pathology, those pathways are used more.

yeah this study is useless without doing the same process against Finasteride sadly. This very same study could also mean that Finasteride is even worse than Dutasteride in this very same scenario which is brutal

For me finasteride works better than dutasteride.

 

[notoriousone]

dutasteride has been shown to be neuroprotective. I had brain fog on finasteride. On dutasteride, I have a very clear mind, possibly better than before any 5AR. This is anecdotal, but there is another thread in this section where I explain why I think the whole allopregnanolone/brain fog hype with dutasteride is way overblown for the standard .5 mg dose.

My question though is, if dutasteride only inhibited 40% serum DHT in the men with oversized prostates in the study, would Finasteride have faired worse? Is this 40% reduction the best 5AR inhibitors can do in extreme cases? To my knowledge, this is the only study that has shown a 5AR failed to perform as expected. There are plenty of reports of people who don't respond to finasteride or dutasteride and actually have blood work showing DHT remaining elevated. Forums just chalked it up to either fake meds or DHT tests being horribly inaccurate. I was hoping this study would elucidate more as to the mechanisms of the failed complete DHT inhibition but they don't provide any plausible explanations.

Not sure if srs.. You cited a study which had a non-logical conclusion by the author saying dutasteride does not reduce plasma alloP. Then I posted a plethora of studies in mice showing dramatic reduction in alloP, as well as, plasma alloP in male patients reducing all the way up to 1 year on finasteride.

Trust me, if you are getting significant cognitive sides on dutasteride you will know. The overwhelming likeliest scenario is there is a minor negative cognitive effect in most people that isn't perceivable.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Not sure if srs.. You cited a study which had a non-logical conclusion by the author saying dutasteride does not reduce plasma alloP. Then I posted a plethora of studies in mice showing dramatic reduction in alloP, as well as, plasma alloP in male patients reducing all the way up to 1 year on finasteride.

You're not able to follow a logical argument. I had to explain to you what a limit is and how it applies to steady state drug levels. You are obsessed with the notion that any reduction in allopregnanolone is bad when the truth is far more nuanced (actual levels don't matter so much as stability). I tried explaining this to you but you are just like "Look this mouse study shows a reduction in allopregnanolone therefore finasteride and dutasteride are bad for humans". Anyone reading that thread can make their own conclusion.

Also, you message me asking for answers to all of your problems and then claim that saw palmetto is lowering your allopregnanolone. There is a reason I stopped responding. I highly recommend you do some reading on the dunning kruger effect and consider the possibility that it may very well apply to your situation.

Trust me, if you are getting significant cognitive sides on dutasteride you will know.

No thank you. I've been on 5AR inhibitors far longer than you and have read far more studies on them than you.

The overwhelming likeliest scenario is there is a minor negative cognitive effect in most people that isn't perceivable.

Sure just ignore studies showing neuroprotection and making the assumption that any reduction in plasma allopregnanolone results in a negative cognitive effect. Do you have any studies showing cognitive impairment with finasteride or dutasteride? No. Truth is, you can't handle taking 5AR inhibitors. You probably can't handle taking ANYTHING that might make any minute change to your physiology based on your claims about saw palmetto. This is most likely psychosomatic and you are probably one of those guys that gets sides minutes after taking their first pill but you know what, it's not my problem. Just stop going around making baseless claims about drugs that you can't take because of your mental health issues, there are plenty of guys who can and SHOULD take these drugs IF their life is going to be severely negatively impacted by male pattern baldness. Severe depression can have way more adverse effects on well being, and cognitive function, than finasteride or dutasteride ever could if they even do at all which again, no studies show (conversely some do show a protective effect).

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

That’s interesting, opposite to what I imagine would happen but we also have the example of Ashton Kutcher who was on Avodart for a decade in his prime and looks like had no issues with brain or sexual judging from his performances and relationships.

There are other pathways to DHT, perhaps in prostate abnormal pathology, those pathways are used more.

None that don't require 5 alpha reductase from I've seen. Even the so called "back door" pathway still uses 5AR. This is what confuses me about the 40% reduction. I suppose the giga prostates are just pumping enormous amounts of 5AR and DHEA is being converted to T to provide ample substrate in absence of sufficient gonadal T.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

None that don't require 5 alpha reductase from I've seen. Even the so called "back door" pathway still uses 5AR. This is what confuses me about the 40% reduction. I suppose the giga prostates are just pumping enormous amounts of 5AR and DHEA is being converted to T to provide ample substrate in absence of sufficient gonadal T.

95% of the T that enters the prostate is converted to DHT. Having a massive prostate off the norm surely must affect in some way. Shame the study isn't really considering any of these factors to come to a true explanation of what happened... (need a baseline with people with normal prostates at the bare minimum)

 

[Armando Jose]

Ashton Kutcher who was on Avodart for a decade

Really? No problems with hair imho

 

[losingbattle88]

Really? No problems with hair imho

Same for you with your dumb hair oils lol. BDD.