Clonin' update. Interctyex interview with Dr. Paul Kemp

michael barry

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I am delighted that TrichoCyte has proven safe in all volunteers enrolled into theIntercytex
TrichoCyte (ICX-TRC):
Cell Based Hair Regeneration Therapy
Interview with
Dr. Paul Kemp
Founder & Chief Scientific Officer





September, 2006

Intercytex (ICX.L) is an emerging healthcare company known for its ability to use proprietary technologies to isolate, culture, and deliver human cells for the treatment of wounds and other aesthetic conditions.

Ever since the announcement of a research product called TrichoCyte (ICX-TRC), Intercytex has become the single most frequently discussed topic in HairSite. ICX-TRC is an autologous cell based therapy for hair regeneration. With this technique, the hair-inductive dermal papilla cells are dissected from hair follicle samples taken from the patient. The cells are then cultured and multiplied in a proprietary process and subsequently injected into the patient’s scalp using a specialized deliver system.

Phase I of the clinical trial was completed in 2005. The following article is based on HairSite’s interview with Dr. Paul Kemp, founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Intercytex. This interviewed was conducted in September 2006 when phase II of the ICX-TRC trial has officially begun. Dr. Kemp hopes that this interview will help HairSite members better understand the current status of their research and clear some of the confusions surrounding this breakthrough in hair restoration procedure.

Information presented herein is a truthful account of the conversations between David Tse (HairSite’s founder) and Dr. Paul Kemp. HairSite will take full responsibility for any inaccuracies or misrepresentations contained in this article.


graphical illustration provided by courtesy of Intercytex
http://www.intercytex.com


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Phase I - Background

Phase I of the ICX-TRC trial was designed to evaluate what concentration of cultured suspension to use in the volunteers, how deep to administer the injections, and safety issues associated with the protocol. One of the main goals for phase I was to ensure that the procedure does not result in complications of any sort among the test subjects. Phase I was concluded in 2005. A lot was learnt from the trial regarding the delivery and dosing requirements of this product. No known side effects, complications or adverse response were discovered among the test subjects. The trial was conducted under the guidance of Dr Bessam Farjo of the Farjo Clinic. Dr Farjo said, “ trial, as this approach to new hair induction will represent a step-change in the way male pattern baldness is treated in the future.â€



Phase I – Test Site
A total of 7 volunteers were enrolled for phase I. The area that was tested was 1 sq cm in size. Each volunteer received 100 injections of the cultured cells in the 1 sq cm recipient site. The time required to administer 1 injection was approximately 5 seconds. Each injection delivered about 1 micro liter of cultured cells.



Phase I – Results
Among the 7 subjects that were enrolled for phase I, 5 reported an increase in hair numbers. Dr. Kemp, being one of the test subjects himself, reported an improvement of about 66 new hairs as a result of the 100 injections. Varying degree of hair regeneration was observed among the 5 participants who showed an improvement. Dr. Kemp's results were considered average among the 5 participants. There were volunteers who actually reported greater increase in hair numbers than Dr. Kemp. It is unknown why 2 of the 7 participants did not show any improvement. One possible explanation is the timing of hair cycling.

When asked about the characteristics of the new hairs observed in the test subjects and whether they resembled cosmetically acceptable terminal hairs, Dr. Kemp said it is premature to conclude at this point given that the test area was only 1 sq cm in size. Also, the fact that the test site was shaved in order to facilitate the hair count made it difficult to evaluate the aesthetics quality of the ICX-TRC induced hairs. It is hoped that the final product will deliver cosmetically acceptable results with near “terminal hair†quality. More conclusive observations and evidence about the hair characteristics will be available upon the completion of phase 2.



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Phase II - the Design

Phase II has officially started in September 2006. Up to 20 test subjects may be enrolled for phase II. Only local subjects will be recruited. Not all test subjects are scheduled to begin the trial at the same time. There will be fine-tuning and adjustments to the protocol as the trial progresses. Dr. Kemp described phase II as a "rolling or staggering" trial in the sense that the protocol may evolve over the duration of the trial. More than 1 protocol may be tested in phase II depending on the initial results.

In phase II, there will be TWO test sites on each volunteer’s scalp. The first test site is on a completely bald area measuring about 1 sq cm. This site will be subject to100 injections of the cultured suspension. Unlike the first test site that resides on a completely bald area, the second test site is on a much larger area containing thinning hair. The second site will be subject to 900 injections. In other words, each volunteer will receive 1,000 injections divided between two test sites on his scalp. Both test sites will be administered and monitored simultaneously.

Evaluation of the 900-injections test site will be done primarily through photographic assessment of the before and after changes. A more detailed graft-by-graft hair count assessment will be performed on the smaller 100-injections test site.

If all goes as expected, phase II may be concluded in approximately 1 year.



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Phase III & Beyond
Nothing conclusive can be determined at this point as to how phase III will be implemented. A lot will be dictated by the results and findings from phase II. Dr. Kemp envisions that phase III will very likely be a multi-centers (U.K & U.S) trial involving more test subjects. Phase III will be similar to the commercial application of the final product that will be made available to the general public. If all goes as expected, phase III may last for approximately 1 year. After the completion of Phase III, Intercytex will proceed to apply for MHRA approval. MHRA is the U.K equivalent of the FDA in the U.S. There might be plans to submit applications to both MHRA and FDA simultaneously upon successful completion of phase III. It is not known how long it will take to obtain MHRA approval, although a 12-18 months timeframe is expected.



Traditional Hair Transplant Techniques,
Minoxidil & Propecia

Dr. Kemp does not anticipate that ICX-TRC will completely obsolete traditional hair transplant procedures the moment it becomes available to the public. There will be first generation ICX-TRC, second generation ICX-TRC, and third generation ICX-TRC etc. over time. Hair transplant will still have a role to play in the beginning especially for the hairline design. However, the demand for traditional hair transplant procedures may diminish as each succeeding ICX-TRC protocol becomes more refined and perfect than its predecessors. Also, younger patients who just started losing their hair may turn to ICX-TRC before they consider more invasive options such as hair transplant. If ICX-TRC is administered to a patient early enough upon initial signs of hair loss, this may eliminate the need for traditional hair transplant procedures entirely later on in his life.

While it is believed that the role of traditional hair transplant may diminish over time, products such as minoxidil and Propecia will still have an important role to play when ICX-TRC becomes available to the general public. These products will be an important adjunct that complement ICX-TRC induced hair growth.



Intercytex & Bosley Distribution Agreement

With respect to the distribution agreement between Intercytex and Bosley that was previously reported on HairSite back in 2004, Dr. Kemp clarified that it is an “option†that Bosley can exercise upon completion of the phase II trial. There is no formal agreement in place at this point that will make Bosley the exclusive distributor of ICX-TRC. But Bosley will be given the first rights to negotiate.



Cost & The Proprietary Culturing Process

It is unclear how the cost will eventually be determined. “It is premature at this point to discuss costâ€, said Dr. Kemp. The ultimate cost of the procedure will very likely be a collaborative decision between Intercytex and the clinic that will be administering the injections. While it only takes seconds to administer 1 injection, the cells dissection and culturing process are critical steps that are extremely onerous. According to Dr Kemp, it is a very labor-intensive process dissecting the dermal papilla cells and culturing them. Typically it can take up to 2 months from the time a biopsy is taken before the cultured cells are ready for injection. It is hoped that over time there will be ways to streamline the dissection and culturing process to keep the cost down for the general public



Rejuvenation vs Neogenesis

When asked about the age-old question of whether this type of cell therapy rejuvenates existing follicles or creates new ones, Dr. Kemp said it is not really their goal to understand how the new hairs are formed. It could very well be a combination of both. More in-depth studies and research are necessary before an intelligent answer can be deliberated. At this point, Intercytex’s main focus is to ensure that the protocol is capable of delivering a cosmetically acceptable difference in the test subjects.


Closing Comments

Dr. Kemp is aware of the keen interest among HairSite members on the subject of cell based hair regeneration therapy. This interview is intended to provide our readers a more factual aspect of the recent developments in Intercytex’s research. The timelines given in this interview are estimates at best. Readers are cautioned that there are uncertainties in all aspect of scientific research. This article contains forward-looking
 

HARM1

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Well , this sure does not sound like " the cure" to me any more. Why will finasteride be needed? expet for keepin the hair you have i don't see any reason.
Another thing- myself i was dreamin that i coidl create a hole new hairline which i never had- now he says that HM may only bring back the hair you had--> no new falicles--> no dreamy hair line. Any way even if all goes well this does not sound like the cure.
im sad
 
G

Guest

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HARM1 said:
now he says that HM may only bring back the hair you had--> no new falicles--> no dreamy hair line.

god we have some picky people on here who will never be satisfied. you won't be satisfied if HM brings you back all the hair you had when you were 12 years old? Now you want hair that you never had before? i have a feeling that giving people back the hair they had would satisfy 99.9% of balding guys in the world.
 

HARM1

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JayMan said:
HARM1 said:
now he says that HM may only bring back the hair you had--> no new falicles--> no dreamy hair line.

god we have some picky people on here who will never be satisfied. you won't be satisfied if HM brings you back all the hair you had when you were 12 years old? Now you want hair that you never had before? i have a feeling that giving people back the hair they had would satisfy 99.9% of balding guys in the world.

Your right, still, me and my gigantic forhead were hoping.

And I think I know why we still wil need finasteride- HM maybe won't be DHT resistant. He says he doesn't know if new, or the same old hairs will grow.
 
G

Guest

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HARM1 said:
JayMan said:
HARM1 said:
now he says that HM may only bring back the hair you had--> no new falicles--> no dreamy hair line.

god we have some picky people on here who will never be satisfied. you won't be satisfied if HM brings you back all the hair you had when you were 12 years old? Now you want hair that you never had before? i have a feeling that giving people back the hair they had would satisfy 99.9% of balding guys in the world.

Your right, still, me and my gigantic forhead were hoping.

And I think I know why we still wil need finasteride- HM maybe won't be DHT resistant. He says he doesn't know if new, or the same old hairs will grow.

I think the reason why you will still need finasteride is that unless you are a Norwood 6 or something when you go in for HM, filling in your balding areas with cells won't change the fact that the hair you have left on front and top is still not DHT resistant. If they clone the hairs from the sides and back that are DHT resistant then I don't think you'll need finasteride to maintain those.

You could always get HM and then do a conventional hair transplant to give you the hairline you want, even one that you never had.
 

HARM1

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JayMan said:
HARM1 said:
JayMan said:
HARM1 said:
now he says that HM may only bring back the hair you had--> no new falicles--> no dreamy hair line.

god we have some picky people on here who will never be satisfied. you won't be satisfied if HM brings you back all the hair you had when you were 12 years old? Now you want hair that you never had before? i have a feeling that giving people back the hair they had would satisfy 99.9% of balding guys in the world.

Your right, still, me and my gigantic forhead were hoping.

And I think I know why we still wil need finasteride- HM maybe won't be DHT resistant. He says he doesn't know if new, or the same old hairs will grow.

I think the reason why you will still need finasteride is that unless you are a Norwood 6 or something when you go in for HM, filling in your balding areas with cells won't change the fact that the hair you have left on front and top is still not DHT resistant. If they clone the hairs from the sides and back that are DHT resistant then I don't think you'll need finasteride to maintain those.

You could always get HM and then do a conventional hair transplant to give you the hairline you want, even one that you never had.
They are not cloning hairs. they clone cells that somehow lead to hahr falicles. he said he does not know if the hairs will be the hairs we had once, or new once. This may say that the new hairs won't be DHT resistant
 

lithebod

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Thanks for the update mb - its nice to read something real about HM for once rather then all the wild speculation - so what he seems to be saying that IF all goes well in the trials 1st Gen HM could be available in 2010 possibly 2009 (1 year for phase 2 and 18months for Phase 3 plus the time in bringing the product to market)
 

hairfin

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interesting interview, i gotta say i am extremely disappointed. the whole reason i was so excited about HM was the prospect of a full set of hair without the need to take finasteride (and the side effects it brings) but if, as it seems, even after HM you still need to carry on taking finasteride then its not really worth it. perhaps they'll develop a better technique in about 20 yrs but hey, what can you do!

also he doesn't seem to answer the question on the quality of the new hairs that grew, suggesting they may have been extremely thin and not natural.
 

Apoc

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Ok now I'm hazy on something: Does HM grow completely new hair or just reactivates dormant folicles?
 

Aker

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900 injections? That better be a full head of hair. If it's for 1 sq cm, I think I'll wait for another "cure".
 

HARM1

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Apoc said:
Ok now I'm hazy on something: Does HM grow completely new hair or just reactivates dormant folicles?
Well as you see not even the head guy knows. They shild just injects is in the arm and see what happens- IF new falicles grow they can move them p to the head, and know that DM grow new hairs.
 

Harie

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So you're willing to have people cut parts of your scalp out and transplant them into other regions of your head...But aren't willing to undergo a few thousand injections to get more density than a hair transplant will ever give you?

It seems to me that in the beginning phases, the injections will not be able to give a realistic hairline, since they can't predict how many hairs will grow etc. So get some dense packing in your frontal areas and the rest can be the HM injections.

Doesn't seem too bad at all to me. I'll endure a few thousand injections and get a small hair transplant for the front hairline if it means I won't ever go bald.
 

FabioM

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I don´t like the ideia of to keep using minoxidil and finasteride but if i get the same density i had some years ago then i´m up for it.
Perhaps they say that just to keep selling :p
 

Aker

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I'm personally not willing to do current implementations of hair transplantation, and if I have to get something like 20,000 injections to fill my NW6/7 head up with hair in 5-10 years, I will probably wait for something less painful and hopefully expensive. If it never comes along, I'll just keep it shaved or something. :p
 

michael barry

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Its obvious to me that some of you didnt even read the entire damned interview, but forget that.


Let me educate some of you youngsters on baldness. I'll start a thread with this info also.

YOU HAVE BALDNESS> Look at an eighty year old bald man. The hair on the back and sides of his head is sparse and thin. A weak DONOR area. Even donor area hair is effected by testsoterone and its metabolites. Youre hair needs no testosterone AT ALL. NADA, none.

For this reason, even after cloning, it would be a good idea to stay on finasteride. The new hair made from your wreath hair still has a small suceptibility to male hormone. Propecia and nizoral should still be used. Topical anti-androgens that would do just as well as propecia and nizoral are most certainly being looked into that can block alpha five reductase activity in your scalp with no systemic side effects. Hopefully some of these things will be able to be delievered nanosomally in shampoo someday, and you'll have luxuriant hair growth until very old age.


Even if Curis, gene therapies, Hair Multiplication (cloning) comes down the pike (I believe cloning will be available within 5 years in some country on the planet almost certainly now), its a good idea to keep DHT away from your hair.....................your hair does not need it
 

FabioM

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That´s what i was thinking about...using minoxidil and finasteride is just to keep on the safe side.

Maybe after they get more experienced doing HM then maybe they will find some way to clone DHT resistant cells
 

htownballa

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Mike,

I don't see what your wreath hair has to do with HM. Supposedly they are injecting something into the scalp to make the dormant hair follicles grow. They are NOT cloning wreath hairs outside of the body. Anyways, you have to use finasteride indefinitely either way. I really hope this works out as the hair transplant industry and medications are limited right now.
 

News2

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I must say I'm not too keen on the idea of having to continue using minoxidil either. I think I'll stoping using it after the HM procedure. (You can always get a top-up if you're going thin again, right? And anyway: It'll be another 50 years until I'm 80, and by then there's probably an easier way of regrowing hair than HM.)

I'm not quite sure why some guys are so negative here. I think what Mr. Kemp said in this interview sounds very promising, and I'm quite sure that HM will become available in the next 4-5 years.
 

DaSand

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If it's coming out in 2010 like it is now, I got stuff to do like school, a job and life. I'll do those first.

The way discussing the new hairs growing has gotten me worried, is the new hair really not DHT resistant? Well, that sucks.
 

elguapo

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That's one of the reasons I liked what I read: they are pushing forward with this as an experiment, testing it both in areas without hair, and in areas of thinning. That could tell us something about hair loss.

My theory, and I reiterate that it is only a theory, is that the (or some of the) hair growth inducing cells migrate from one follicle to another. I think planting new dermal papilla cells near a dying follicle will cause that follicle to continue to grow. Dr. Gho's data and pics show the same. So hopefully we will learn from these Phase II trials that HM around thinning hairs will keep the other hair follicles alive. Who knows.

But the interview implies that the hair in the back is also vulnerable to DHT. Well, maybe so, but WHEN I AM 80, WHO f*****g CARES! I want to keep my hair until I'm 50 or 60. I don't care too much beyond that! So I think the concept is still solid, that the donor sites are going to grow thick, terminal hairs, and when multiplied and injected into a balding area, those new cells will grow terminal hairs at that site, too, for many, many years.

That's my two cents. Man I look forward to a year, year and a half from now, when some results are in.
 
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