Can We Minimize Pgd2 By Minimizing Dietary Omega-6 Fatty Acids?

[persistentone]

I read about prostaglandins on the SwissTemples site here:

http://swisstemples.com/the-prostaglandin-protocol/
http://swisstemples.com/prostaglandin-chart/

As I understand it, PGD2 is inflammatory and bad for the follicles. PGE2 is apparently protective of the follicle, although I have not seen any good evidence that PGE2 is actually required.

In all of these prostaglandin discussions, I think people are missing the most obvious point of all. Both PGD2 and PGE2 are metabolic derivatives of omega-6 fatty acid. The average American diet is loaded with polyunsaturated fats, and the percentage of these that are omega-6 are enormous. Typical concentrations of omega-6 in diet are 30% to 45%. All of that started to rise from a historical baseline of omega-6 fats around 8% at the early 1900s.

If we undertook a radical change of diet, and we attempted to shed omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids from our body tissues over time, we could reduce the amount of PGD2 and PGE2 by 70% or more.

Has any researcher tested to see what happens when you reduce Omega-6 fatty acids, and does this reduction in PGD2 and PGE2 affect male pattern baldness at all?

 

[cyrusthegreat@hotmail.com]

Just as a matter of health, I've drastically reduced omega 6 fats from my diet for the past 6 mo. In that time I lost 20lbs due to diet alone. My hair loss has been worse in this period, but I've slept better than at any other time in recent years.

The balance of fat types in diet is what matters health wise. For hair loss, unless you're sharply deficient in nutrients or calories, diet changes almost never have an impact.

 

[persistentone]

Just as a matter of health, I've drastically reduced omega 6 fats from my diet for the past 6 mo. In that time I lost 20lbs due to diet alone. My hair loss has been worse in this period, but I've slept better than at any other time in recent years.

What percentage of your dietary intake do you believe is polyunsaturated fat? Have you tested that?

For years, I believed I was limiting my intake of Omega-6, and when I finally tested it my jaw dropped. It ends up being a much tougher problem than you might believe. For example, the USDA food database says bacon has 10% polyfats. When you actually test bacon, most of it is more than 30% polyfat. Polyfat has crept into every part of the food chain. It's impossible to eat chicken or pork and make any progress on this issue. Olive oil is 10% polyfat. If you want to get a low polyfat oil you need to use macadamia oil. If you use butter, you better get the butter tested and not believe marketing claims on the labels.

The balance of fat types in diet is what matters health wise. For hair loss, unless you're sharply deficient in nutrients or calories, diet changes almost never have an impact.

Right, but the interesting point is that all of the most exciting hair loss research is currently around prostaglandins. One cannot help but notice that the drawings of both the PGD2 and PGE2 metabolic pathways originate from omega-6 fatty acids. So rather than giving people PGD2 inhibitors, wouldn't it make more sense to just modify the diet and reduce the PGD2 levels dramatically without any drugs? And, if anyone does lower omega-6 dramatically, does it actually affect markers of their hair loss at all? For example, does the amount of itching and hair shedding markedly decrease?

Has anyone found studies where they document the incidence of male pattern baldness according to the type of diet you eat? For example, do high-carb and low-fat dieters have any difference versus high-fat, low-carb?

 

[abcdefg]

"PGD2 and PGE2 metabolic pathways originate from omega-6 fatty acids"

How do you know that? Id be surprised if anyone knows this for sure. One study showing a link doesnt mean jack squat it could easily come from multiple pathways

 

[persistentone]

"PGD2 and PGE2 metabolic pathways originate from omega-6 fatty acids"

How do you know that? Id be surprised if anyone knows this for sure. One study showing a link doesnt mean jack squat it could easily come from multiple pathways

Look at the metabolic pathways in the original links. PGD2 and PGE2 and all related metabolites descend from Arachidonic (AA or ARA) (20:4n6). AA in turn is derived from the primary Omega-6 Linoleic (LA) (18:2n6).

If you want to make the argument that there is a different metabolic pathway, then you should present the drawing that shows it.

 

[Ashkan63]

The answer of your question is no ,male pattern baldness is more serious to be stopped by diet

 

[persistentone]

The answer of your question is no ,male pattern baldness is more serious to be stopped by diet

I believe that, but the question is whether it is made worse by PGD2. If yes, then won't controlling the dietary ingredients that metabolize to PGD2 potentially reduce the extent of the male pattern baldness?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

DGLA, one of the main ingredients in Brotzu's formulation, is an omega-6 fatty acid.

 

[persistentone]

DGLA, one of the main ingredients in Brotzu's formulation, is an omega-6 fatty acid.

Given all of the bad things attributed to Omega-6 fatty acids, I do wonder if we are not better off just trying to get 90% of them out of the diet entirely.

 

[Ashkan63]

I believe that, but the question is whether it is made worse by PGD2. If yes, then won't controlling the dietary ingredients that metabolize to PGD2 potentially reduce the extent of the male pattern baldness?

Pgd2 is a factor is hairloss but you cant reduce it to a level to affect the process or increase meat intake wont affect it that much in other way by diet thats just like telling someone who has asthma that dont eat meat and your asthma would go away as pgd2 plays important role in asthma as well

 

[Giiizmo]

Arachidonic acid (AA, sometimes ARA) is a polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid

AA + Cyclooxygenase => PGH2 + PDG/PGE synthase => both PGD2 and PGE2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid#/media/File:Eicosanoid_synthesis.svg


So by limiting omega-6 fatty acids you'd be reducing both PGD2 and PGE2. And PGE2 is supposedly beneficial for hair growth.

 

[persistentone]

Pgd2 is a factor is hairloss but you cant reduce it to a level to affect the process or increase meat intake wont affect it that much in other way by diet thats just like telling someone who has asthma that dont eat meat and your asthma would go away as pgd2 plays important role in asthma as well

And how exactly would we test your statement when the average American diet has 30% to 45% omega-6 fatty acids, whereas the historical diet prior to subsidies on seed oils was under 10%? I mean the entire US food supply is contaminated by omega-6 fatty acids.

 

[persistentone]

Arachidonic acid (AA, sometimes ARA) is a polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid

AA + Cyclooxygenase => PGH2 + PDG/PGE synthase => both PGD2 and PGE2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid#/media/File:Eicosanoid_synthesis.svg


So by limiting omega-6 fatty acids you'd be reducing both PGD2 and PGE2. And PGE2 is supposedly beneficial for hair growth.

That's all correct, but what are the relative contributions of PGD2 and PGE2? Given the typical conversions from AA to each of these prostaglandins, if we reduce AA levels in diet are we doing more good or more bad? And has anyone tested that?

See, the obvious point I am making is that reducing omega-6 in diet is something all of us could actually do if we were sufficiently motivated. It could have very large effects on our scalp levels of both prostaglandins. To my knowledge no researcher has tested whether this will reduce hair loss or accelerate it. I suspect strongly it will reduce it, but definitely not eliminate it.

 

[Giiizmo]

The effect of dietary modification is probably modest at best. I guess a way to test this would be to follow a group of people with a typically low omega 6 to 3 ratio, like Inuits or maybe Japanese or Italians - but then you'd run into the issue of ethnic genetic susceptibility to hair loss.

Or you could just take COX inhibitors for a few months and see what happens. I think this path has already been tested numerous times by members of this site, though. If simply reducing inflammation worked, we'd all be dabbing our heads with hydrocortisone or the likes. From what I remember, some members reported less shedding but also less growth, with hair loss still going about its merry business.

 

[persistentone]

The effect of dietary modification is probably modest at best. I guess a way to test this would be to follow a group of people with a typically low omega 6 to 3 ratio, like Inuits or maybe Japanese or Italians - but then you'd run into the issue of ethnic genetic susceptibility to hair loss.

Maybe it would have no effect, but I cannot help but notice that the three populations on the attached graph with the lowest saturation of Omega-6 are also statistically the populations with the lowest incidence of male pattern baldness. That's not proof that Omega-6 prostaglandins are the reason for that result, but it is tantalizing enough for me to want a better experiment of the hypothesis.

[NOTE: In the attached graph, the acronym HUFA is Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids and is equal to the sum of all Omega-3 and Omega-6.]

Or you could just take COX inhibitors for a few months and see what happens. I think this path has already been tested numerous times by members of this site, though. If simply reducing inflammation worked, we'd all be dabbing our heads with hydrocortisone or the likes. From what I remember, some members reported less shedding but also less growth, with hair loss still going about its merry business.

That would be the last thing you would want to do, because COX2 inhibitors preferentially downregulate PGE2 more than they do PGD2:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15652766

 

[Ashkan63]

The effect of dietary modification is probably modest at best. I guess a way to test this would be to follow a group of people with a typically low omega 6 to 3 ratio, like Inuits or maybe Japanese or Italians - but then you'd run into the issue of ethnic genetic susceptibility to hair loss.

Or you could just take COX inhibitors for a few months and see what happens. I think this path has already been tested numerous times by members of this site, though. If simply reducing inflammation worked, we'd all be dabbing our heads with hydrocortisone or the likes. From what I remember, some members reported less shedding but also less growth, with hair loss still going about its merry business.

Who really want to try hydrocortisone for hairloss? Even if they work do you know about side effects?anti androgen side effects are nothing compared to them

 

[persistentone]

Who really want to try hydrocortisone for hairloss? Even if they work do you know about side effects?anti androgen side effects are nothing compared to them

I never proposed taking hydrocortisone for any purpose. I was proposing to study the effect of eating less omega-6 fatty acid.

 

[horunger]

Speaking only from my own experience, i have definitely had health benefits by removing plant based fats from my diet and sticking to natural fats from meat, fish and butter. In other words, i moved my fat intake to what it was for people a hundred years ago, worked great for me but of course it had no effect on my hair. Extra fat intake also has a positive effect on bodyfat, carbs are best for gaining weight fast but animal based fats will do it with less buildup of fat around the waist (need to balance it though, too little carbs combined with lotsa fats causes weight loss and eventual loss of appetite)

 

[horunger]

And, can we have this moved to Alternative Treatments please. Dietary, minerals, vitamins and other snake-oil far fetched ideas belong there. No offence to seekers but if vitamins and diets cured diseases dont you think we would know already and abandoned doctors and medicines long ago, we would only need to chew on some pretty flowers to look like greek gods and live forever.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

And, can we have this moved to Alternative Treatments please. Dietary, minerals, vitamins and other snake-oil far fetched ideas belong there. No offence to seekers but if vitamins and diets cured diseases dont you think we would know already and abandoned doctors and medicines long ago, we would only need to chew on some pretty flowers to look like greek gods and live forever.

We probably wouldn't. The knowledge of effects of vitamins and minerals on the body is constantly evolving as it's not a completed field of research by any means.