Can S-equol Bind To Ar Inhibitors Like Ru And Cb?

[Gone]

This is just a thought and would still take a lot of innovation to make work, but I'm imagining a scenario where AR is inhibited by receptor binding molecules, and any extra inhibitor molecules are bound by S-Equol. If S-Equol can bind DHT, and AR inhibitors with a shape similar to DHT can attach to AR, I wonder if the shapes of S-equol and DHT inhibitors could be compatible.

 

[WMQ]

Just curious, how do you see that benefiting our hair?

 

[tylerduren]

An awfull lot of broscience wizards on this forum

 

[mr_robot]

Dude. I suggest you keep this invention to yourself, develop the cure and make the big bucks. Then you will have the hair and the money and the women.

 

[Gone]

Just curious, how do you see that benefiting our hair?

The idea is to neutralize the anti-androgen drug with something that could bind to it, like S-equol apparently can. Both s-equol and antiandrogens would be useful on their own, but I'm thinking of side-effect prevention, getting rid of any extra drug in your system that could cause unwanted inhibition of androgens. Something like this would help our hair in that we'd have valid anti-androgen options without the worry that comes from using something like finasteride.

 

[Gone]

Dude. I suggest you keep this invention to yourself, develop the cure and make the big bucks. Then you will have the hair and the money and the women.

Even if the two types of drugs are compatible it's still a mediocre idea, no doubt people have considered this. But it's good to come up with new ideas because sometimes you can eventually turn them into great ones.

 

[mr_robot]

Even if the two types of drugs are compatible it's still a mediocre idea, no doubt people have considered this. But it's good to come up with new ideas because sometimes you can eventually turn them into great ones.

I don't think you have thought this through, from what I can gather I think you are trying to neutralize the anti AR drug by attaching something to it to stop it working on other parts of the body. The problem with this is it will stop the drug from working at all even if you took it orally and the anti AR topically as it would eventually find its way into the hair follicle.

The correct way to deal with this problem is for the drug to metabolize once it enters the bloodstream when applied topically, which is what CB is supposed to do but accounts so far does not happen fast enough so you still get sides.

 

[Gone]

I recognize that as a complication. The equol dose would be minor, just as a backup to phase out the antiandrogens that don't enter the dermal papilla cells. An even bigger problem is that the equol would have no distinction between DHT and the Anti-androgen. You could apply equol to the scalp, but then how much would neutralize the AA? And if you add equol before or after the AA, will it be unable to "catch up" to the other drugs that are already moving through the bloodstream? Probably.

 

[mr_robot]

I recognize that as a complication. The equol dose would be minor, just as a backup to phase out the antiandrogens that don't enter the dermal papilla cells. An even bigger problem is that the equol would have no distinction between DHT and the Anti-androgen. You could apply equol to the scalp, but then how much would neutralize the AA? And if you add equol before or after the AA, will it be unable to "catch up" to the other drugs that are already moving through the bloodstream? Probably.

I think you don't quite get how s-equol works, it does not affect the AR at all. It will just stop DHT binding to the AR by disfiguring it and will have no interaction with CB or RU.

 

[Gone]

I don't think you understand what I'm proposing, I didn't say it affected AR.

If CB and RU are similar in structure enough to bind to the androgen receptor, then the possibility that s-equol could also bind to antiandrogens, not just T or DHT, could be useful for clearing extra antiandrogens that aren't used by hair.

 

[abcdefg]

Lets slow down a little. Does s-equol even have any effect on DHT? How much s-equol does it take, and does it have any sides of its own? I mean where do you even buy s-equol and what purity and so on does that have? A lot of questions about it before you get into what else it might do.
Brotzu lotion apparently uses it so maybe it has some value. Too early to say

 

[Badbald]

I like your thinking, thats what the forum should be here for and i think we should have more threads like this. all gather research from past bits and pieces and collectively come up with ideas to see if we can some how help the problem ourselves, not just wait and talk about labs doing it, that dosent really help the issue in the long run. And although it may need more looking into to see if there are issues at least theres good simple logic in that adding one other drug to help with the excess

 

[Dench57]

never go full retard dude

 

[Gone]

Lets slow down a little. Does s-equol even have any effect on DHT? How much s-equol does it take, and does it have any sides of its own? I mean where do you even buy s-equol and what purity and so on does that have? A lot of questions about it before you get into what else it might do.
Brotzu lotion apparently uses it so maybe it has some value. Too early to say

We know that it does affect DHT for a fact. This is part of what theoretically makes the Brotzu lotion effective, I'm wondering if it has the same effect on DHT inhibitors. It would have side effects depending on the dose, probably similar to using an AA, and it's known to be a prevalent biological chemical among certain Asian races, which is postulated to be related to the less intense androgenicty of those races.

 

[mr_robot]

I don't think you understand what I'm proposing, I didn't say it affected AR.

If CB and RU are similar in structure enough to bind to the androgen receptor, then the possibility that s-equol could also bind to antiandrogens, not just T or DHT, could be useful for clearing extra antiandrogens that aren't used by hair.

What you are saying makes no sense, why would that be the case? S-equol does not bind to T, just DHT because it just happens to fit. Likewise RU & CB are completely different looking molecules and have no relation to each other or DHT. Like I said previously, S-equol doesn't work in the way you think it does.

 

[Gone]

Except they're not completely different, they're very similar. Similar enough that they can selectively bind to the same receptor. That's how receptor inhibition works, because the drug's shape mimics the shape of the chemicals already present in the body. The idea that it's "not related" to DHT is wrong.

I know how S-equol works, I'm considering additional applications that as far as we know, have not been tested. You're responding to a question without knowing the answer

 

[mr_robot]

Except they're not completely different, they're very similar. Similar enough that they can selectively bind to the same receptor. That's how receptor inhibition works, because the drug's shape mimics the shape of the chemicals already present in the body. The idea that it's "not related" to DHT is wrong.

I know how S-equol works, I'm considering additional applications that as far as we know, have not been tested. You're responding to a question without knowing the answer

Two things that mimic something does not mean they are the same. As I said before, S-Equol binds to DHT but not to T, yet DHT and T both bind to the AR so by your logic they should both be inhibited by S-Equol but they are not because the part of the molecule that attaches to the AR is not necessarily what the S-Equol is binding to, it just needs to disfigure the molecule enough that one part of it does not fit.

And I repeat, regardless of this even if you could get it attach to anything that attaches to the AR receptor it would be useless as once it's in the follicle how can it distinguish what is excess CB/RU? How can it be stopped from going into the blood stream and attaching to other androgens?

 

[Gone]

And I repeat, regardless of this even if you could get it attach to anything that attaches to the AR receptor it would be useless as once it's in the follicle how can it distinguish what is excess CB/RU? How can it be stopped from going into the blood stream and attaching to other androgens?

Actually, this was taken from my response a few posts up.

I'm not saying they have to be the same, they don't have to be the same, only able to bind to the same receptor. The only way to have a good prediction of whether it works is to look closely at its chemical structure, see if S-equol and an AA are compatible and then make a hypethesis and test it. I'm not concluding anything because I haven't made a conclusion, the answer to this question could be answered by either an educated prediction or an actual experiment. I can't find any studies showing interactions between S-equol and AAs, because most people would think, well, if you're trying to disable AAs, what's the point of using them? And in this context, it's the removal of side effects.

 

[mr_robot]

Actually, this was taken from my response a few posts up.

I'm not saying they have to be the same, they don't have to be the same, only able to bind to the same receptor. The only way to have a good prediction of whether it works is to look closely at its chemical structure, see if S-equol and an AA are compatible and then make a hypethesis and test it. I'm not concluding anything because I haven't made a conclusion, the answer to this question could be answered by either an educated prediction or an actual experiment. I can't find any studies showing interactions between S-equol and AAs, because most people would think, well, if you're trying to disable AAs, what's the point of using them? And in this context, it's the removal of side effects.

Not really because it's almost certain that S-equol is not binding to the part of DHT that binds to the AR as it would bind to other androgens in the body too . As molecules are 3D structures they would have to be similar to DHT, the fact that AAs also bind to the AR is not that significant. You could for example make a plug incompatible with a socket by just adding an extra pin.

Considering there is a large amount of Asian people that produce S-Equol naturally, you'd think that any studies that included something like Flutamide would show an interaction if there was any.

 

[Gone]

These are from two different studies:

/

Looking at both of these, it seems that equol does not bind to testosterone, but decreases free T by increasing SHBH (I don't know how it does this.) So the equol molecule that attaches to DHT does not bind to T as you said. It's possible that AAs might experience the same fate as DHT when used with equol, but this hasn't been tested the same way it has been with testosterone. It's probably more effective to look at some other method for tackling hair loss.