Bryan: what is dutasteride's regrowth % ?

[roki]

it's 66% from finasteride if i rememeber right
i dont rememeber seeing the dutasteride data on this

 

[Guest]

i've always wondered too. i thought they only did 6 and 12 month studies with dutasteride in phase II, which is the last phase they completed.

if anybody would know the answer it would be Bryan because he has read all of the studies. I'll add his name to your title so he will see it and can answer if he knows.

 

[Riordan]

avodart has done nothing to me except an enlarged breast and i have to avoid wearing tight t-shirts cos my nipples stick out. yikes!

 

[Bryan]

Can you be specific about what you mean by "regrowth %"?

 

[roki]

i ment the % of subjects that showed any regrowth it dosent matter by how much...

 

[Guest]

Can you be specific about what you mean by "regrowth %"?

like with propecia after 2 years, 83% at least maintained their hair count, and 66% regrew. i think those are the stats. i think hes wondering if you know what the percentages were for those who maintained and regrew in the dutasteride studies? or were these not done because dutasteride never completed phase III for hair loss?

 

[H2O]

Well Roki and Jayman....Bryan did make this post way back when on a Dutasteride thread...This might cover some of the info you're interested in :

For quite some time now, I've been telling people that from my reading of various topical minoxidil studies and finasteride studies, it appears that minoxidil is more effective at stimulating regrowth than finasteride; an obvious question nowadays would be: where does the very long-awaited dutasteride fit into the grand scheme of things? We have some good data from the dutasteride phase II trial, so does it finally surpass what Rogaine can do? I decided to look at the data from every topical minoxidil study in my collection and make an objective comparison! Since the only reported data in the dutasteride trial were the hair-counts, I could only use minoxidil studies that also reported hair-counts, to get any kind of meaningful comparison; and there are exactly six of them in my collection.

I've given the full citations to the studies at the very end of this post, in case anyone wants to double-check my figures and computations. As I'm reporting the numbers for each one, I'll just refer to them as (1) through (6)...again, you can check at the end to see the full reference. The minoxidil studies lasted for varying lengths of time like 4 months, 6 months, and 12 months, while the Glaxo finasteride and dutasteride trial lasted only for six months; to compensate for that, I've specified the actual length of each individual trial, and then calculated the hair-count increase PER MONTH, for fairness. Also, all hair-counts are standardized to the familiar 1-inch circular test spot on the scalp. Ok...all set? Here we go:

(The Glaxo trial of finasteride and dutasteride)

Finasteride... +72 hairs, six months (12.0 hairs/month)
Dutasteride... +108 hairs, six months (18.0 hairs/month)


(All the following are the topical minoxidil studies)

(1) 2% minoxidil... +425 hairs, 12 months (35.4 hairs/month)
Also: 3% minoxidil... +372 hairs, 12 months (31.0 hairs/month)

(2) 2% minoxidil... +273.4 NONVELLUS hairs, 12 months (22.8 hairs/month)

(3) 2% minoxidil... +101 TERMINAL hairs, 13 months (7.8 terminal hairs/month)

(4) 1% minoxidil... +149 hairs, 6 months (24.8 hairs/month)
Also: 2% minoxidil... +175 hairs, 6 months (29.2 hairs/month)

(5) 2% minoxidil... +233.8 hairs, 12 months (19.5 hairs/month)

(6) 2% minoxidil... +151 hairs, 4 months (37.8 hairs/month)
Also: 2% minoxidil... +324 hairs, 12 months (27 hairs/month)
Also: 3% minoxidil... +166 hairs, 4 months (41.5 hairs/month)
Also: 3% minoxidil... +338 hairs, 12 months (28.2 hairs/month)


There you have all the data! Averaging all the topical minoxidil data shows an average hair-count increase of +25.1 hairs per month (for that study #6, I'm using just the 12-month data), whereas dutasteride only managed a hair-count increase of +18.0 hairs per month! Finasteride brings up the rear at only +12.0 hairs per month! Summarizing the data is very simple and elegant: dutasteride generates about 50% more regrowth than finasteride (we've been saying that for a long time), and topical minoxidil generates about 50% more regrowth than dutasteride, according to all these studies! And here's a small but important detail: the minoxidil hair-counts are actually a little UNDERestimated, because the numbers reported for studies #2 and #3 were for nonvellus and terminal hairs, respectively. Factoring in TOTAL hair-counts (which weren't reported in those two studies) would make regrowth from topical minoxidil even more impressive.

Bottom line: as I've been saying for a long time, dutasteride is a fine new addition to our weaponry, but it should be considered a potent agent to inhibit the balding process itself, and not really something that's going to stimulate a lot of extra regrowth. For that, you'll have to use a complete program that addresses all the known angles that we've been talking about, like minoxidil, SODs, etc. By no means is dutasteride all by itself any kind of ultimate "cure" for balding; at least, not if any serious regrowth is one of your goals. But if all you need to do is maintain, then it should be an outstanding new drug for you, even by itself.

Bryan


(1) "Topical Minoxidil in Early Androgenetic Alopecia", Kreindler et al, J Am Acad Dermatol 1987;16:718-24.

(2) "Five-Year Follow-Up of Men With Androgenetic Alopecia Treated With Topical Minoxidil", Olsen et al, J Am Acad Dermatol 1990;22:643-6.

(3) "Duration of Minoxidil Therapy to Yield Maximum Benefit", [Letter] Rietschel et al, Arch Dermatol 1988;124:1569-70.

(4) "Dose-Response Study of Topical Minoxidil in Male Pattern Baldness", Olsen et al, J Am Acad Dermatol 15:30-37, 1986.

(5) "Topical Minoxidil Therapy for Androgenetic Alopecia", Koperski et al, Arch Dermatol 1987;123:1483-1487.

(6) "Topical Minoxidil in Early Male Pattern Baldness", Olsen et al, J Am Acad Dermatol 13:185-192, 1985.

Link to the thread :

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=49&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Hope that helps...I know it doesn't address the exact percentage of trial participants who experienced regrowth but it does give some other interesting information...

Edit:

Jayman...now I see you read this info about 6 mos ago so no new news to you...good for other people who haven't seen it though...I guess the ball is back in Bryan's court again...

 

[Bryan]

Well Roki and Jayman....Bryan did make this post way back when on a Dutasteride thread...This might cover some of the info you're interested in :

{big snip}

Hey, I just re-posted that MYSELF a couple of days ago on the Propecia forum! Didn't you see it over there?

I'll have to look through the Glaxo study again to see if they mention a "regrowth %" like what you guys are talking about. I'll get back to you on that...

Bryan

 

[roki]

thanks H2O and thanks Bryan that was a good post altough in not happy to hear this because i dont like all this topical crap

 

[Guest]

Well Roki and Jayman....Bryan did make this post way back when on a Dutasteride thread...This might cover some of the info you're interested in :

{big snip}

Hey, I just re-posted that MYSELF a couple of days ago on the Propecia forum! Didn't you see it over there?

I'll have to look through the Glaxo study again to see if they mention a "regrowth %" like what you guys are talking about. I'll get back to you on that...

Bryan

Haha I remember that. I was the first one to post in the thread a couple days ago. But yeah the regrowth % is what roki is interested in

Thanks Bryan

 

[Stu85]

Yeah, knowing the exact percentages of those who regrew and maintained on dutasteride would be great.

I don't like finasteride's odds of me only having 66% chance of regrowth - and the 17% chance of being a non responder! I really hope dutasteride's results are better....