Bryan/CCS - Green Tea Extract?

[blaze]

I read where you say GTE is an androgen recptor blocker CCS, but I think I remember Bryan say its a 5AR inhibitor? Which is it?

What would be a good vehicle outside of Shampoo for GTE?

And over at BAC they have 3 different GTE on offer, which is the best?
Here is the link - http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Herbals_F-J.html#8295

thanks for any help

 

[CCS]

GTE is a mixture of many polyphenols. Each does something different. Some might not even affect hair. The cheap GTE is 40% EGCG. EGCG is an androgen receptor blocker. GTE also has curcumin in it, which is a 5ar blocker. Who knows what the other anti-oxidants in there do, but GTE is great for skin.

If you want internal benifits, get the cheap stuff, since it will last you longer. But the middle stuff is 25g, and should still last a very long time if only used topically. Not sure if it is better, but it has more EGCG in it.

As for a vehicle, that is speculation. But PG and ethanol and water seem to do OK in many small studies. Octyl salicilate is good for fat soluble stuff like spironolactone and finasteride, but I don't know if it will help with GTE. DMSO 5% might though. I don't know the best vehicle, but I do know GTE is VERY cheap and probably strong too. At the very least it is good for your face.

 

[Bryan]

I read where you say GTE is an androgen recptor blocker CCS, but I think I remember Bryan say its a 5AR inhibitor? Which is it?

Adding here to what CCS just said:

EGCG (one of the main components of GTE) appears to be both, at least according to that one fairly recent study with hamster flank organs which has been widely quoted. However, I'd like to see that further tested, before I can fully believe it. Hell, even the researchers themselves seemed surprised by that result, if you can read between the lines of that study!

BTW, when I personally used to experiment with topical GTE, I used a simple vehicle of 50/50 purified water/Everclear, and I applied it to a thoroughly-hydrated scalp, for maximum possible absorption. I'm not sure about its solubility in propylene glycol, which is why I stayed away from that.

 

[mulder]

Would it be more effective as a topical for hair loss than taken internally? Applying all these topical solutions are a pain and I have my doubts about absorption of have this stuff. Why not just take it as a high dose supplement? I need to get an antioxidant mix together.

 

[mulder]

I applied it to a thoroughly-hydrated scalp, for maximum possible absorption.

Question for Bryan or CCS:

What's the best method of hydrating your scalp for the best possible topical absorption? I would assume having the entire scalp moist but not soaking wet is preferable...also the hotter the better? How long should the scalp be moist before you should apply the topical? etc.

Thanks in advance

 

[blaze]

Thanks Bryan and CCS.

I think I will get this stuff, since it has the most EGCg in it -

Green Tea 95+%
GREEN TEA EXTRACT. For those wanting to take large doses, we have a premium extract standardized to 95-98% polyphenols, about 80% catechins & >50% EGCg, with less than 1% caffeine. Use 90mg EGCg 3x/day before meals to promote optimal thermogenic fat burning. Too bitter for beverage use. Pregnant women consult physician before use. 50 grams, $7.50. Code 829.8


Bryan what was the percentage of GTE that you made?

And how did it fair for you?

 

[Bryan]

Would it be more effective as a topical for hair loss than taken internally? Applying all these topical solutions are a pain and I have my doubts about absorption of have this stuff. Why not just take it as a high dose supplement? I need to get an antioxidant mix together.

I'm rather dubious about the value of internal green tea (or green tea extract, for that matter) for hairloss, for the simple reason that EGCG (the putative most active component of green tea) is very poorly absorbed from the GI tract. It seems to me that if the antiandrogenic properties of EGCG (or whatever other beneficial properties there may be) are going to be helpful for hair follicles, pretty much the only way it's going to get to your scalp is if you physically PUT it there, using a topical vehicle.

If I'm eventually proven wrong about that, I will gladly eat crow!

 

[Bryan]

What's the best method of hydrating your scalp for the best possible topical absorption?

Well, the BEST POSSIBLE method would be to thoroughly shampoo your scalp, which would serve the dual functions of completely hydrating your scalp, and cleansing it of dirt/oil/sebum which might serve as a barrier to the subsequent absorption of hairloss topicals, especially water-soluble ones like EGCG.

However, applying an EGCG topical to your scalp in the manner I described previously does make you smell strongly of green tea, so it's not something you'd want to do and then go out in public. When I used to experiment with it, I'd thoroughly wet my scalp separately, then apply the EGCG topical, then wait for as long as I could while doing other things (watch TV, post on the Internet, read the paper, whatever), then jump in the shower after at least an hour or so and shampoo it all off.

I would assume having the entire scalp moist but not soaking wet is preferable...

Well, I'd get my scalp pretty damned wet for a period of time, but then let it dry to a "moist" level just prior to aplying my GTE solution.

also the hotter the better?

Probably. In fact, when I was doing that, I'd keep my scalp wet/moist by spraying it periodically with water from a plastic bottle with a spray-pump on it. Usually I'd keep it warm by nuking it a little in the microwave (be sure and remove the pump-spray first before microwaving the bottle, because they contain metal springs).

How long should the scalp be moist before you should apply the topical? etc.

Dunno for sure, but I always tried to keep it wet/moist for at least 10-15 minutes or so. Shampooing, though, ought to work faster than that, I would imagine...

 

[blaze]

Bryan,

What was the percentage/strength of the topical GTE that you made?

And how did it fair for you?

Why isnt GTE topical discussed more if it is so beneficial to hairloss? Im surprised no one is marketing it?

 

[JWM]

What are your thoughts on adding GTE to some baby shampoo? Worth a try? Worthless?

 

[CCS]

What are your thoughts on adding GTE to some baby shampoo? Worth a try? Worthless?

That is what I'm doing. It will not be as effecting as putting a topical on a hydrated scalp after a shower. But I guarantee you will miss days doing that, and not get every square inch.

The shampoo will not mess up your hair, will be so easy to do eVERY day or even twice a day, and is just so cheap. Combine the two iff you want. The GTE in baby shampoo combo costs nothing and will last forever. That 100g container of GTE will just sit in your fridge for a few years while you take a few grams out now and then to make more shampoo. USE IT AS A FACE WAS TOO, OR EVEN A BODY WASH. Scrub with a wash cloth and leave it all on till you are ready to rinse it all off. Save shower water doing that. Just get wet, while soaking your hair in hot water, then turn off the shower. Shampoo first, do you face below your eyes and far from your eyes, then work your way down to your feet with the wash cloth. The nose is extra important-- all those big pores. Then rinse off.

 

[CCS]

I bought 20oz bottles of generic baby shampoo for under $3. No SLS. Good to rotate with Nizoral and Piroctone Olamine. Search for "body shop" and "ginger shampoo" on Amazon.com. They are $9.50 for 250mL, and $7 shipping.

 

[Bryan]

I think I will get this stuff, since it has the most EGCg in it -

Green Tea 95+%
GREEN TEA EXTRACT. For those wanting to take large doses, we have a premium extract standardized to 95-98% polyphenols, about 80% catechins & >50% EGCg, with less than 1% caffeine. Use 90mg EGCg 3x/day before meals to promote optimal thermogenic fat burning. Too bitter for beverage use. Pregnant women consult physician before use. 50 grams, $7.50. Code 829.8

That's the same stuff I've used!

Bryan what was the percentage of GTE that you made?

You know, at one point I tried to determine that by measuring just how much of that extract I was putting into my vehicle with my digital scale, and then calculating the percentage. It was a little tricky, because when you start adding a lot of the powder, the liquid starts to get REALLY dark in a hurry, and it's not always obvious to what extent the powder is actually being dissolved.

In any event, if I remember correctly from a long time ago, I _think_ I was adding enough of the powder to get somewhere around a 10% solution (or at least mixture) at first, but backed-off a little to about 6%, because the liquid was just so damned dark, and I didn't want to waste any of the GTE powder.

And how did it fair for you?

I can't answer that question, because I only played around with it for a while. I didn't use it long enough or consistently enough.

 

[Bryan]

Why isnt GTE topical discussed more if it is so beneficial to hairloss?

Because nobody really KNOWS to what extent (if any) that it's beneficial for hairloss. There are the obvious reasons to think that it might be, but it remains highly speculative.

Im surprised no one is marketing it?

Doesn't that company that sells various liposomal hairloss remedies (I'm drawing a blank on their name at the moment, but you know what I'm talking about) also sell a "green tea" liposomal product?

edit: http://www.lipoxidil.com

 

[blaze]

Thanks Bryan.

I am in the process of reading that HUGE 40 odd page thread entitled "DHT and testosterone kills hair directly". FOOTE has killed that thread with his crazy rants and proposterous beliefs.

docj077 seems to think that GTE is a very weak Anti Androgen. Is there any evidence to suggest other wise, because it would be a waste of time making a topical if it was.

I use spironolactone 2% topical at the moment, but am looking for something that is a little stronger and has a longer lasting effect at blocking the androgen receptor.

 

[CCS]

Is there any evidence to suggest other wise, because it would be a waste of time making a topical if it was.

That is why you should use a shampoo. Super cheap, and not time involved. Can't use Nizoral every day anyway.

 

[CCS]

I was wrong: it is 50g of the good stuff for $7.50. The cheap stuff is only 16% EGCG. So I'll buy the other stuff now.

 

[mulder]

What's the best method of hydrating your scalp for the best possible topical absorption?

Well, the BEST POSSIBLE method would be to thoroughly shampoo your scalp, which would serve the dual functions of completely hydrating your scalp, and cleansing it of dirt/oil/sebum which might serve as a barrier to the subsequent absorption of hairloss topicals, especially water-soluble ones like EGCG.

However, applying an EGCG topical to your scalp in the manner I described previously does make you smell strongly of green tea, so it's not something you'd want to do and then go out in public. When I used to experiment with it, I'd thoroughly wet my scalp separately, then apply the EGCG topical, then wait for as long as I could while doing other things (watch TV, post on the Internet, read the paper, whatever), then jump in the shower after at least an hour or so and shampoo it all off.

I would assume having the entire scalp moist but not soaking wet is preferable...

Well, I'd get my scalp pretty damned wet for a period of time, but then let it dry to a "moist" level just prior to aplying my GTE solution.

also the hotter the better?

Probably. In fact, when I was doing that, I'd keep my scalp wet/moist by spraying it periodically with water from a plastic bottle with a spray-pump on it. Usually I'd keep it warm by nuking it a little in the microwave (be sure and remove the pump-spray first before microwaving the bottle, because they contain metal springs).

How long should the scalp be moist before you should apply the topical? etc.

Dunno for sure, but I always tried to keep it wet/moist for at least 10-15 minutes or so. Shampooing, though, ought to work faster than that, I would imagine...

Thanks Bryan, much appreciated.

 

[zxAddict]

Anymore updates on green tea extract? It looks interesting....
How were the topicals prepared (using the mentioned GTE from http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Herbals_F-J.html)

??
Dump the powder into ethanol perhaps and leach out the active ingredients?

 

[masculineyourheart]

...or just chuck it in your minoxidil.