Beware Clive Clinics

[giggsy]

Guys

When I first started losing my hair over a year and a half ago I panicked and saw an ad in the paper for Clive Clinics.

I booked an appointment and went in where I met with a so called "trichologist" or hair specialist. Basically the whole thing was a scam.

On consultation I clearly explained my situation and that I wanted to attempt to halt the hair loss and eventually try and regain some hair. I explained to them that I was new to the hair loss game.

The first thing they attempted to do was to sell me their products at ridiculously inflated prices, including stuff called Kankho and various supplements and shampoos. I was also put on an 8 month course of their formula at $200+ a month.

Basically I was never at any stage told about the only products that could actually help me. These are propecia and minoxidil (rogaine), the only FDA approved treatments for hair loss.

Instead I was told that a substance called Takanal was the only way to help me and they sold me product by product of theirs.

They cost me over $2,000 in eight months and more importantly cost me valuable time in my fight against hair loss.

 

[Redbone]

Its ok giggs it happend to me in the states with Lewenbergs sh*t 10 mo on for $160 per month. I could have gotten more results from 5% minoxidil at $15 per month.

Now I must terminate and expose all scams in this business....

 

[HairFreak]

Now I must terminate and expose all scams in this business....

I'm on the same quest as you.

 

[kiwi1973]

giggys

I went to them too
when i started losing my hair i saw a add in the yellow pages for "clive clinics" and made a appointment
first offf i found them very sleazy,very hard sell, they have a waiting room for new clients and a different one for old clients,I guess its so you cant ask the old clients if there treatments work
then I meet the Trichologist who told me that if it wasnt for there treatments he would be bald now,but didnt have any old photos of his hair
also in the consultion room they had this mirrior so you can see how bad you hair loss is while you in the consultation

I never had the treatment as it was to expensive and i was moving to London also i never realy trusted them

is there really a branch of medicine call Trichology??????

I thought dermatology dealt with hair???

sorry to hear that you got conned

 

[giggsy]

This is the email I wrote them and their response:

XXXX

I am writing this under an alias.

I would like to stress my disappointment at your service. I consulted you, a so called 'Trichologist', at your Sydney Offices on York Street in order to help me with my hair loss which had started a few months earlier. I had seen an ad of yours in the paper.

On consultation I clearly explained my situation and that I wanted to attempt to halt the hair loss and eventually try and regain some hair. I explained to you that I was new to the hair loss game.

The first thing you attempted to do was to sell me your products at ridiculously inflated prices, including Kankho and various supplements and shampoos. I was also put on an 8 month course of your formula at $200+ a month.

Basically I was never at any stage told about the only products that could actually help me. These are propecia and minoxidil (rogaine). These are the only FDA approved treatments for hair loss.

You are a so called hair loss expert and you never mentioned to me anything about Propecia and Minoxidil? Instead I was told that Takanal was the only way to help me and then sold product by product of yours that was never going to work. I would like an explanation for this?

I have spoken with the Department of Fair Trading in this regard and they have urged me to lodge a complaint about your unethical practices.

I look forward to receiving an explanation from you as you have cost me over $3,000 in eight months and more importantly cost me valuable time in my fight against hair loss.

Giggsy

Their response:

Hi Giggsy

It saddens me to receive your email and not even know who I'm dealing with.
I feel that I have let you down, but stand by our products and service 100%.
I will endeavour to explain our practice and products. But please contact me
in due course to obviously discuss your lack of results. Our treatments are
guaranteed and we honour our guarantees 100%.

The products you were using, are based off medical research from the British
Journal Dermatology (1988) 119- 627-632. On consultation of these documents,
you will notice the remarkable ability of Azelaic Acid, B6 and Zinc, to
suppress DHT levels by up to 98%. This is one of the highest DHT
suppressants known to this clinic, and most others around the world.
(copies can be picked up from the clinic)

Research into these ingredients on the internet will confirm my beliefs,
that compared to using a drug based steroid, which only suppresses one
isoform of 5 alpha reductase, Azelaic B6 and zinc suppresses both, with no
dangerous side effects, is a far preferred option.

Takanal is a pharmaceutical product shown through the Japanese Ministry of
Health, to increase hair diameter in up to 92% of cases (an expensive
option, with fewer side-effects). We prefer this over minoxidil (ongoing
twice daily), as a client uses it for approximately 8-12 months, then
continues with basic Kankho Stimulant at an ongoing cost of around $200.00
per year.

We as a company never meant to mislead you in any way or form. And if you
had mentioned your grievances about your results we would have acted
accordingly. We admit that not all clients will get perfect results and
sometimes we have to refund difficult cases.

I hope this helps answer your questions and look forward to being able to
speak to you in person, or at least review your case history.


Yours faithfully
XXXX

 

[HairFreak]

Azelaic Acid, B6 and Zinc.....
HAHAHAHAHA and they charge that much for that!? Crinagen has all those ingredients, and much more, for the price of $50 for 8 months supply.
I cant stop laughing. HAHAHAHAHAHA :roll:

 

[giggsy]

Thanks HairFreak...I just emailed them the following based on your post:

XXXX,

As you are a consultant, the Trade Practices Act requires you to inform your clients of all medically acceptable alternatives. There are only two FDA approved treatments for hair loss and these are Propecia and Minoxidil. It is unethical not to advise a 'patient' of this. It is extremely clear that you have deliberately withheld this information from me in order to coerce me into purchasing your products at inflated prices.

I quote you regarding your product: "This is one of the highest DHT suppressants known to this clinic, and most others around the world". The highest medically accepted DHT suppressant is Finasteride and it is the ONLY supressant that is FDA approved. Why was I not informed of this?

A further quote from you: "We as a company never meant to mislead you in any way or form". The Trade Practices Act clearly defines the term 'Mislead' to include deliberately withholding information in order to sell a product.

Finally your product cost me over $200 per month and contains the following ingredients and I quote: "Azelaic Acid, B6 and Zinc". I am SURE you have heard of the product called Crinagen which contains exactly those substances and more i.e Distilled water; Polysorbate 20; Azelaic Acid; Zinc acetate hydrate; Niacin; Vitamin B6 (as Pyridoxal-5-phosphate); Saw palmetto extract (serenoa repens); Ginkgo biloba and a mild natural fragrance. You can purchase this for $US50 for a 3 month supply. That is about $AUD25 per month as opposed to your $200 per month. Can you please explain why I was so grossly overcharged for this product?

I look forward to your response

Giggsy

 

[HairFreak]

Actually you get 4 bottles for 53.85 which is 4x 118ml = 472ml/ 2ml per day = 236 days / 30 = almost 8 months supply, not 3 :lol:

http://www.raztec.com/iorderformus.html

 

[kiwi1973]

Giggys
its great to see someone fight back against these so called "hair clinics"
I would push for a full refund as 2 grand is a lot of money
and also make that complaint with Department of Fair Trading

It would be great to see some of these con men put out of bussiness

 

[giggsy]

Further correspondence with these bastards:

Hi Giggsy

Your emails concern our Clinic immensely, with such strong allegations,
yet with no client details or information it makes it very hard to reply to
you letters accurately.

Please contact the clinic or myself to make an appointment with our Company Director, this will allow us to address all concerns, and check your allegations off against our notes made during your consultations.

The company Director is in Australia on Tuesday the 16th December till
Thursday the 18th of December. Please contact us ASAP to book a suitable
time.

Thanking you
XXXX


My Response:


XXXX,

These are not allegations. These are fact.

1) I was never told once about Propecia and Minoxidil. You referred me
straight to your solutions.
2) Your product contains the same ingredients as Crinagen exactly yet it
is sold for 10x the price...here is a link. See for yourself:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/shop/catalo ... p?cPath=36

My lawyer has advised not to discuss this alone so we will be contacting
the director.

Giggsy


Their Response:

Hi Giggsy

The Director is on a flight from Wellington to Auckland at present. Will beback in the head office in Auckland tomorrow. His contact details are Rory Plumridge ph. 0011 64 9 373 2553.

Thanking you
XXXX

 

[jblig]

98% of dht ...huh...im sold,

 

[powersam]

you live in aus too huh giggsy? when i first noticed my hairloss i went nuts and made appointments at like 4 different places , including clive clinics and advanced hair. didnt show up to any. regretted it for a bit. not anymore. did you get one of those hair analysis things done also?

 

[giggsy]

yeah mate...had the hair anlysis thing done and was told the reason for my itchy scalp was that I had too much tin in my hair follicles. Was then put on a special 'clives clinics' treatment to 'flush' the tin out at $AUD80 a bottle.

Dude I feel like such an idiot now but I am going to fight those bastards to get my money back.

 

[Andrew]

Hi Giggsy,

Where do you live?!
Sydney and Melbourne is just lovely.

Anyway, this is off topic however, did you notice lately that Ryan Giggs is balding noticeable?!

Saw him scoring that goal against Sttugard last Tuesday and see his hairline creeping up!!!!

He is a great player.

 

[hair4now]

I know it’s nearly 2 years since anyone’s replied to this topic but I’m very much interested in hearing from anyone who has had a battle with these types of companies. I went to Clive Clinics in 1992 and would have spent about $3000 over a year on their products and services. Giggsy - you might be interested in this link - it’s about a complaint from Merck Sharp & Dohme on an add Clive Clinics had in the NZ Hearald a while ago which indirectly bagged Propecia. It's a bit long winded but it’s good to see someone taking action against these unethical companies …

http://www.asa.co.nz/decisions/FULL/D02392.rtf

 

[kiwi1973]

I remember that ad came out just after Propecia was aproved in new zealand
I thought clive clinics must have been pretty worried that they would lose all there business to something that actually worked

I wonder what happed to Giggsy and his fight against clive clinics?

 

[triton2]

The products you were using, are based off medical research from the British
Journal Dermatology (1988) 119- 627-632. On consultation of these documents,
you will notice the remarkable ability of Azelaic Acid, B6 and Zinc, to
suppress DHT levels by up to 98%. This is one of the highest DHT
suppressants known to this clinic, and most others around the world.
(copies can be picked up from the clinic)

What they don't say is that the only study that showed azelaic+b6+zinc to work was an IN VITRO study. Moreover, leaving effectiveness aside, 50 grams of azelaic acid cost less than 10 bucks, not to mention zinc sulphate, which costs less than 5 bucks for 100 grams. So, for less than 15 bucks, you'd have azelaic acid for more than a year and zinc for years, years and more years... I guess these people were getting profits over 10000% with this scam.

 

[hair4now]

Clive Clinics

I wonder what happed to Giggsy and his fight against clive clinics?

Yep I'd like to know as well - although I wouldn't be surprised if nothing much came of it - these companies have a way of getting away with ripping off people. Good to hear some input from a fellow Kiwi - hows life in London?

 

[giggsy]

the fight

Well boys,

I actually called up the company director and had a nice discussion with him along the lines of what I wrote in those emails. He blabbed all this stuff that sounded like it came from a book he was reading. "Our products are the best blah blah".

I called him a thief for charging overinflated prices for products that were not effective and unproven and he tried to blurt out some studies that he did. I repeated my threat about complaining to the office of fair trading and at first he said that it was my perogative.

About two days later I got an email from a trichologist offering me a $AUD250 refund. I reiterated that I wanted to be anonymous but they wouldnt send out a refund to just anyone. I ended up giving them my details and a week later, I had a refund cheque for that amount in my post box.

I didnt push for anymore because I felt like I had won a moral victory. Maybe I should have lodged my complaint anyway, but I lost momentum.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Yeah and they wanted your personal information purely for legal reasons. Trust me on that.

I am glad that you did this though giggsy. We are in the midst of a big legal battle with someone who wishes to destroy our ability to advise our users away from products with insufficient data backing them. We will not give in until we have won. When this lawsuit is over with, this person will have nothing to show for it except wasted time, wasted money, not a single additional penny to his name from it, and sanctions up the wazoo which we will be coming after diligently to collect.

Anyone who stands up for what is right is to be commended.

"Evil Triumphs when Good Men do Nothing".

HairLossTalk.com