best growth stimulants other than minoxidil

DogoDiLaurentiis

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I used minoxidil for a couple weeks and I stopped it out of concern of skin aging, not because I actually noticed the effects myself. I have some unappealing premature wrinkles around my eyes that I do not want to get worse. I was using the foam by the way. Sadly it seems like everything with hair loss is a lesser of 2 evils. There's some studies on topical adenosine for treating wrinkles actually, so maybe it's one of minoxidil's other growth effects that has more of a negative impact on skin.

Like I said I feel like minoxidil is detrimental if you use a concentration that is more than your body can tolerate, also like Finasteride, I believe that dosages for therapeutic use are far overstated. I'm literally going to cut my "non-pg" minoxidil solution in half and use a dilute solution of a carrier to split the difference. I'm going to start with a very low dosage of it to see how it affects me.

I believe that pg increases or rather in the case of some people, exacerbates the effects of minoxidil to the point where it overwhelms them, and then you get the awful sides as with the guy in the threads posted on this forum concerning specifically that. We'll see though, if I can get away with a seriously dilute solution of minoxidil and still get some decent regrowth while mitigating negative effects on my skin, it's a complete win-win.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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True about his results and underwhelming attempt to stay the course but it might only work as maintenance in the absence of reaching levels known to be substantially feminizing. Unfortunately or not, estrogen is no secret and hasn't been a secret since being discovered with different metabolites in the 20's and 30's.

In my opinion, there a very good reason why it hasn't been a thing the past century or until HRT programs started allowing non-binary folks in their program ~2015 and since the ease of acquiring meds from off-shore. Even the menopausal creams on Amazon can grow substantial breasts with possibly meager effects on regrowth save maintenance. To get to the hair, the really good hair anyway, you have to pass through the entire spectrum of feminizing effects as it goes systemic easily which we have always known.

This is and has historically been the opposite of my experience in both using estrogen and regrowing my hair after loss.

I've been applying estrogen twice daily to my scalp for a while now and still have not experienced nor seen any gyno at all, yet I'm already seeing new hair growth starting at my hair line where there previously was none at all. My hairfall has also after an initial shed basically stopped now.
 

JAKE12321

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This is and has historically been the opposite of my experience in both using estrogen and regrowing my hair after loss.

I've been applying estrogen twice daily to my scalp for a while now and still have not experienced nor seen any gyno at all, yet I'm already seeing new hair growth starting at my hair line where there previously was none at all. My hairfall has also after an initial shed basically stopped now.
so no sides and your hair grows, that's awesome to hear thank you , iw ill give it a try with finasteride and the other stuff and hopefully will see reuslts
 

Ticken

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Like I said I feel like minoxidil is detrimental if you use a concentration that is more than your body can tolerate, also like Finasteride, I believe that dosages for therapeutic use are far overstated. I'm literally going to cut my "non-pg" minoxidil solution in half and use a dilute solution of a carrier to split the difference. I'm going to start with a very low dosage of it to see how it affects me.

I believe that pg increases or rather in the case of some people, exacerbates the effects of minoxidil to the point where it overwhelms them, and then you get the awful sides as with the guy in the threads posted on this forum concerning specifically that. We'll see though, if I can get away with a seriously dilute solution of minoxidil and still get some decent regrowth while mitigating negative effects on my skin, it's a complete win-win.

2.5% minoxidil solution for the win-win!

Curious if you might have any tips or hacks for diluting 5% kirkland minoxidil to 2.5% with a more scalp friendly yet equally penetration enhancing ingredient? Any experience with emu oil?

There's an interesting bit here about an emu oil & minoxidil emulsion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311290/
 

polishkickbuttowski

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I'm gonna leave this list of growth stimulants that can be used in conjunction with microneedling that Pegasus2 posted. This is so people have an exhaustive list to go through so we don't have to keep going back and forth about finding a single growth stimulant.
"From Follica:

"Hair growth-promoting agents for use, alone or in combination, in accordance with this aspect include but are not limited to: agents affecting prostaglandins, such as Prostaglandin F2α analogs, e.g. latanoprost (trade name Xalatan), travoprost (trade name Travatan), tafluprost, unoprostone, dinoprost (trade name Prostin F2 Alpha), AS604872, BOL303259X, PF3187207, carboprost (trade name Hemabate); Prostamides, e.g., bimatoprost (trade names Latisse, Lumigan); Prostanoid receptor agonists, e.g. fluprostenol; Prostaglandin D2 receptor antagonists, e.g. laropiprant, AM211; Prostglandin E2 analogs, e.g. sulprostone; and EP 2 receptor agonists, e.g. butaprost; 5α-reductase inhibitors, such as, e.g., finasteride, dutasteride, turosteride, bexlosteride, izonsteride, epristeride, epigallocatechin, Fluridil (Sovak et al, Dermatol Surg. 2002; 28(8):678-685), RU 58841 (Pan et al. Endocrine. 1998; 9(1):39-43), N,N-diethyl-4-methyl-3-oxo-4-aza-5 alpha-androstane-17 beta-carboxamide (Rittmaster et al., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1987; 65(1):188-193), MK-386, azelaic acid, FCE 28260, SKF 105,111; Minoxidil; ATP-sensitive potassium channel openers, e.g. diazoxide; and the hair growth-promoting agents described herein or otherwise known in the art, such as, e.g., kopexil (for example, the product Keranique™), CaCl2, botilinum toxin A, adenosine, ketoconazole, DoxoRx, Docetaxel, FK506, GP11046, GP11511, LGD 1331, ICX-TRC, MTS-01, NEOSH101, HYG-102440, HYG-410, HYG-420, HYG-430, HYG-440, spironolactone, CB-03-01, RK-023, Abatacept, Viviscal®, MorrF, ASC-J9, NP-619, AS101, Metron-F-1, PSK 3841, Targretin (e.g., 1% gel), MedinGel, PF3187207, BOL303259X, AS604872, THG11331, PF-277343, PF-3004459, Raptiva, caffeine, and coffee. Other hair-growth promoting agents include arginine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine, gamma linoleic acid and polyphenol catechins, copper peptides. Other hair-growth promoting agents that can be formulated as a hair wash tonic could include but are not limited to, jojoba oil, extract of apple, saw palmetto, emu oil, beta carotene and green tea. In one aspect, an integumental perturbation method of the invention is used in combination with drugs for alopecia being developed by SWITCH Biotech LLC."

Bimatoprost and PGE2 are your best bet imo, but they aren't cheap."
 

JAKE12321

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I'm gonna leave this list of growth stimulants that can be used in conjunction with microneedling that Pegasus2 posted. This is so people have an exhaustive list to go through so we don't have to keep going back and forth about finding a single growth stimulant.
"From Follica:

"Hair growth-promoting agents for use, alone or in combination, in accordance with this aspect include but are not limited to: agents affecting prostaglandins, such as Prostaglandin F2α analogs, e.g. latanoprost (trade name Xalatan), travoprost (trade name Travatan), tafluprost, unoprostone, dinoprost (trade name Prostin F2 Alpha), AS604872, BOL303259X, PF3187207, carboprost (trade name Hemabate); Prostamides, e.g., bimatoprost (trade names Latisse, Lumigan); Prostanoid receptor agonists, e.g. fluprostenol; Prostaglandin D2 receptor antagonists, e.g. laropiprant, AM211; Prostglandin E2 analogs, e.g. sulprostone; and EP 2 receptor agonists, e.g. butaprost; 5α-reductase inhibitors, such as, e.g., finasteride, dutasteride, turosteride, bexlosteride, izonsteride, epristeride, epigallocatechin, Fluridil (Sovak et al, Dermatol Surg. 2002; 28(8):678-685), RU 58841 (Pan et al. Endocrine. 1998; 9(1):39-43), N,N-diethyl-4-methyl-3-oxo-4-aza-5 alpha-androstane-17 beta-carboxamide (Rittmaster et al., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1987; 65(1):188-193), MK-386, azelaic acid, FCE 28260, SKF 105,111; Minoxidil; ATP-sensitive potassium channel openers, e.g. diazoxide; and the hair growth-promoting agents described herein or otherwise known in the art, such as, e.g., kopexil (for example, the product Keranique™), CaCl2, botilinum toxin A, adenosine, ketoconazole, DoxoRx, Docetaxel, FK506, GP11046, GP11511, LGD 1331, ICX-TRC, MTS-01, NEOSH101, HYG-102440, HYG-410, HYG-420, HYG-430, HYG-440, spironolactone, CB-03-01, RK-023, Abatacept, Viviscal®, MorrF, ASC-J9, NP-619, AS101, Metron-F-1, PSK 3841, Targretin (e.g., 1% gel), MedinGel, PF3187207, BOL303259X, AS604872, THG11331, PF-277343, PF-3004459, Raptiva, caffeine, and coffee. Other hair-growth promoting agents include arginine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine, gamma linoleic acid and polyphenol catechins, copper peptides. Other hair-growth promoting agents that can be formulated as a hair wash tonic could include but are not limited to, jojoba oil, extract of apple, saw palmetto, emu oil, beta carotene and green tea. In one aspect, an integumental perturbation method of the invention is used in combination with drugs for alopecia being developed by SWITCH Biotech LLC."

Bimatoprost and PGE2 are your best bet imo, but they aren't cheap."
thank you
 

JAKE12321

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I'm gonna leave this list of growth stimulants that can be used in conjunction with microneedling that Pegasus2 posted. This is so people have an exhaustive list to go through so we don't have to keep going back and forth about finding a single growth stimulant.
"From Follica:

"Hair growth-promoting agents for use, alone or in combination, in accordance with this aspect include but are not limited to: agents affecting prostaglandins, such as Prostaglandin F2α analogs, e.g. latanoprost (trade name Xalatan), travoprost (trade name Travatan), tafluprost, unoprostone, dinoprost (trade name Prostin F2 Alpha), AS604872, BOL303259X, PF3187207, carboprost (trade name Hemabate); Prostamides, e.g., bimatoprost (trade names Latisse, Lumigan); Prostanoid receptor agonists, e.g. fluprostenol; Prostaglandin D2 receptor antagonists, e.g. laropiprant, AM211; Prostglandin E2 analogs, e.g. sulprostone; and EP 2 receptor agonists, e.g. butaprost; 5α-reductase inhibitors, such as, e.g., finasteride, dutasteride, turosteride, bexlosteride, izonsteride, epristeride, epigallocatechin, Fluridil (Sovak et al, Dermatol Surg. 2002; 28(8):678-685), RU 58841 (Pan et al. Endocrine. 1998; 9(1):39-43), N,N-diethyl-4-methyl-3-oxo-4-aza-5 alpha-androstane-17 beta-carboxamide (Rittmaster et al., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1987; 65(1):188-193), MK-386, azelaic acid, FCE 28260, SKF 105,111; Minoxidil; ATP-sensitive potassium channel openers, e.g. diazoxide; and the hair growth-promoting agents described herein or otherwise known in the art, such as, e.g., kopexil (for example, the product Keranique™), CaCl2, botilinum toxin A, adenosine, ketoconazole, DoxoRx, Docetaxel, FK506, GP11046, GP11511, LGD 1331, ICX-TRC, MTS-01, NEOSH101, HYG-102440, HYG-410, HYG-420, HYG-430, HYG-440, spironolactone, CB-03-01, RK-023, Abatacept, Viviscal®, MorrF, ASC-J9, NP-619, AS101, Metron-F-1, PSK 3841, Targretin (e.g., 1% gel), MedinGel, PF3187207, BOL303259X, AS604872, THG11331, PF-277343, PF-3004459, Raptiva, caffeine, and coffee. Other hair-growth promoting agents include arginine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine, gamma linoleic acid and polyphenol catechins, copper peptides. Other hair-growth promoting agents that can be formulated as a hair wash tonic could include but are not limited to, jojoba oil, extract of apple, saw palmetto, emu oil, beta carotene and green tea. In one aspect, an integumental perturbation method of the invention is used in combination with drugs for alopecia being developed by SWITCH Biotech LLC."

Bimatoprost and PGE2 are your best bet imo, but they aren't cheap."
do you know where to buy bimatoprost ?
 

Nsas

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I'm gonna leave this list of growth stimulants that can be used in conjunction with microneedling that Pegasus2 posted. This is so people have an exhaustive list to go through so we don't have to keep going back and forth about finding a single growth stimulant.
"From Follica:

"Hair growth-promoting agents for use, alone or in combination, in accordance with this aspect include but are not limited to: agents affecting prostaglandins, such as Prostaglandin F2α analogs, e.g. latanoprost (trade name Xalatan), travoprost (trade name Travatan), tafluprost, unoprostone, dinoprost (trade name Prostin F2 Alpha), AS604872, BOL303259X, PF3187207, carboprost (trade name Hemabate); Prostamides, e.g., bimatoprost (trade names Latisse, Lumigan); Prostanoid receptor agonists, e.g. fluprostenol; Prostaglandin D2 receptor antagonists, e.g. laropiprant, AM211; Prostglandin E2 analogs, e.g. sulprostone; and EP 2 receptor agonists, e.g. butaprost; 5α-reductase inhibitors, such as, e.g., finasteride, dutasteride, turosteride, bexlosteride, izonsteride, epristeride, epigallocatechin, Fluridil (Sovak et al, Dermatol Surg. 2002; 28(8):678-685), RU 58841 (Pan et al. Endocrine. 1998; 9(1):39-43), N,N-diethyl-4-methyl-3-oxo-4-aza-5 alpha-androstane-17 beta-carboxamide (Rittmaster et al., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1987; 65(1):188-193), MK-386, azelaic acid, FCE 28260, SKF 105,111; Minoxidil; ATP-sensitive potassium channel openers, e.g. diazoxide; and the hair growth-promoting agents described herein or otherwise known in the art, such as, e.g., kopexil (for example, the product Keranique™), CaCl2, botilinum toxin A, adenosine, ketoconazole, DoxoRx, Docetaxel, FK506, GP11046, GP11511, LGD 1331, ICX-TRC, MTS-01, NEOSH101, HYG-102440, HYG-410, HYG-420, HYG-430, HYG-440, spironolactone, CB-03-01, RK-023, Abatacept, Viviscal®, MorrF, ASC-J9, NP-619, AS101, Metron-F-1, PSK 3841, Targretin (e.g., 1% gel), MedinGel, PF3187207, BOL303259X, AS604872, THG11331, PF-277343, PF-3004459, Raptiva, caffeine, and coffee. Other hair-growth promoting agents include arginine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, valine, gamma linoleic acid and polyphenol catechins, copper peptides. Other hair-growth promoting agents that can be formulated as a hair wash tonic could include but are not limited to, jojoba oil, extract of apple, saw palmetto, emu oil, beta carotene and green tea. In one aspect, an integumental perturbation method of the invention is used in combination with drugs for alopecia being developed by SWITCH Biotech LLC."

Bimatoprost and PGE2 are your best bet imo, but they aren't cheap."
What are some examples of PGE2?
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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True about his results and underwhelming attempt to stay the course but it might only work as maintenance in the absence of reaching levels known to be substantially feminizing. Unfortunately or not, estrogen is no secret and hasn't been a secret since being discovered with different metabolites in the 20's and 30's.

In my opinion, there's a very good reason why it hasn't been a thing the past century or until HRT programs started allowing non-binary folks in their program ~2015 and since the ease of acquiring meds from off-shore. Even the menopausal creams on Amazon can grow substantial breasts with possibly meager effects on regrowth save maintenance. To get to the hair, the really good hair anyway, you have to pass through the entire spectrum of feminizing effects as it goes systemic easily which we have always known. For females and pre-balding maintenance using very small amounts, particularly in the crown and temples might be indicated without increasing feminization. It might also improve the scalp environment for maintenance or regrowth and work synergistically with other meds but right now testing in combo is mostly limited to oral, not topical spironolactone and few believe that spironolactone is absorbed well or very active topically.

But be careful. The human body is wired to see the introduction of estrogen, for the first time in itself as a host, as a trigger to begin breast growth and menstruation. XY's don't menstruate of course, but tiny amounts of any sort of estrogen can initiate breast growth which is usually meager in XY's but you never know. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

literally have not experienced any titty growth at all, body fat? Yes, a bit extra, but this mythological triggering of a female transition has been laughably absent.

Also I think Derek missed the point, if you're not seeing an incredible increase in serum estrogen from topical estradiol, that means technically you're still getting the activity at the receptor site, that's a win-win, as long as you keep other hair killing hormones at bay.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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Why do you feel that bimatoprost is superior to latanoprost?

Bimatoprost did sweet f*** all for my hair and it's stupidly expensive, you're far better off using minoxidil, and just diluting the f*** out of it to the point where you can tolerate it on a 1 to 2x daily dosage.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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2.5% minoxidil solution for the win-win!

Curious if you might have any tips or hacks for diluting 5% kirkland minoxidil to 2.5% with a more scalp friendly yet equally penetration enhancing ingredient? Any experience with emu oil?

There's an interesting bit here about an emu oil & minoxidil emulsion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4311290/

I used kirkland and it made my scalp an absolute f*****g mess, it has propylene glycol in it and that made my scalp an unnatural color of pinkish red and the entirety of my scalp where I applied it had a thick layer of dead skin that was very difficult to get off.

That's what propylene glycol does, and I will never use that sh*t again.

You don't need high penetration that's what I think causes sides, you just need to get to your scalp, not your bloodstream.

I'm simply going to take my non-pg minoxidil and put half of it in a bottle and dilute it with 1-3 part mixture of witch hazel and distilled water.

So I'll technically I have a 1.-whatever percentage mix.

I'm going to start there and see if I get any side effects.

My philosophy with minoxidil and finasteride is that more is not better.

Emu oil sounds like an absolutely terrible idea to use with minoxidil, you want something that dries and doesn't make your hair look like sh*t.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Bimatoprost did sweet f*** all for my hair and it's stupidly expensive, you're far better off using minoxidil, and just diluting the f*** out of it to the point where you can tolerate it on a 1 to 2x daily dosage.
Oral min seems to work better for lashes than latisse both of which I use daily but I am going to dump the latisse since it's ungoddessly expensive at some point but someone on here, an esteemed reader, was nice enough to give me a little packet of latisse powder so anyone with an easy way to mix it up, I would be most obliged.
 
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