Beginning RU w/ pix

[Rogazzle]

For someone responding very well to anti-androgens,one week is sufficient to start noticing that the base of the existing hair shaft is getting thicker.

the angle at which the hair shaft stands will begin to raise to a more vertical angle.

That happened to me whenever i did start finasteride, dutasteride and RU.

Its a subtle change but you will know that results are pointing to a good direction.

Glad to hear Ice is having good results

In only 1 week ... bullshit. And I thought you where one of the more intelligent regulars here.

Unless you do a miniaturization study and start putting hair samples under the microscope, you won't be able to discern a 1-week change with the naked eye.

 

[Rogazzle]

Well, I've been on it a week too, and I think the improvement you are seeing is in your head. 1 week is not enough time to see improvement. Wishful thinking.

Wrong

Wow, you really refuted me there. :jackit:

You really believe that RU can reverse, in one week, the miniaturizing effects of DHT on hair follicles, which has most likely been occurring over years? Get real. Even if your hair responds well in an androgen-less environment, it still takes time for the next hair cycle to start, at which point you may start seeing thicker hair.

^^^ this +1.

Hair shafts do not change thickness mid growth. They have to shed and a new thicker shaft replaces it.

 

[ice2613]

You say that RU can worsen hairless for some , I think that is starting to happen with me. Been on RU for a bit now and at first it looked better now it's getting worse than baseline. Not sure what to do ...

I'm using FE, thinking of switching to OC.

Will the RU make a difference or should I quit RU.

Bah I'm lost again..

Hey Rich, I'd say as far as RU goes, there's so many factors to it that you won't really know. Are you making sure you rub it in good when applying? Is the powder white and smell like paint? Are you using the right delivery system? Is the RU not working effectively in ur solution because of how it's being stored or time? Maybe you could try making a fresh batch daily.

Bottom line is, if androgens are your problem, RU will work, so either something may be affecting the RU and its absorption on your scalp or your problem isn't androgens.

 

[keepinthehair]

Is it possible that the RU precipitates somewhat when applied to existing hair causing sort of a thickening effect? Similar to that Topic stuff some people use. I know my hair absorbs the residual PG in Minoxidil giving a false sense of increased diameter especially after two days. The oiliness of PG also acts as a dust catcher, just add flour or sawdust. Viola hairloss solved. :woot:

 

[blaze]

Hair shafts do not change thickness mid growth. They have to shed and a new thicker shaft replaces it.

It has been shown that hair shafts can thin and thicken during growth phases.

 

[Ende]

Yeah, I've seen it.

 

[el_duterino]

Once the effect of the androgens is removed, the hair can grow back in its normal thickeness again.

At the normal speed of growth, 7 days is just about enough to notice the bottom of the hair shaft getting a bit thicker..you need to look very closely though at the hairline

That of course will apply to a hair that is linked to a healthy follicle still able to produce hair in normal length.

The very thin "baby hair" growing at max 1 cm before treatment might shed in the process.

 

[Rogazzle]

My understanding:

Androgenic Alopecia (miniaturization)

Androgen's signal the follicle > follicle enters resting phase > the hair sheds > the follicle re-organizes smaller > a new smaller hair emerges. Repeat the rebirth cycle until the hair follicle dies. Terminal >>>> Vellus.

Chemically induced regrowth

Androgen signals are blocked at the follicle > follicle enters resting phase > the hair sheds > the follicle re-organizes larger > a new larger hair emerges. Repeat the cycle until the hair grows to full thickness. Vellus >>>> Terminal.

I've seen hairs that are thinner at the apex and thicker at the base, but I attribute this to hair shaft age and environmental wear and tear.

I've never seen the opposite.

 

[Jeff]

Rogazzle, your last post was a nice respectful response. Should have been your 1st one in this thread, and yet you chose to properly insert your foot in your mouth. :dunno:

I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot of stuff about hairloss that I don't know about.
Even if I did I wouldn't be arrogant or insulting about. You seem to have a decent grasp on certain hairloss topics and yet when faced with the option to respond in a positive, helpful, or at the very least respectful way you consistently choose to be a dickhead.

Maybe you should stick to your expertise, which seems to be vag cream applications and how many licks it takes to to properly lubricate a crusty, dried up snatch!!

Shake and bake

That just happened

 

[Rogazzle]

Rogazzle, your last post was a nice respectful response. Should have been your 1st one in this thread, and yet you chose to properly insert your foot in your mouth. :dunno:

I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot of stuff about hairloss that I don't know about.
Even if I did I wouldn't be arrogant or insulting about. You seem to have a decent grasp on certain hairloss topics and yet when faced with the option to respond in a positive, helpful, or at the very least respectful way you consistently choose to be a dickhead.

Maybe you should stick to your expertise, which seems to be vag cream applications and how many licks it takes to to properly lubricate a crusty, dried up snatch!!

Shake and bake

That just happened

You mean like PLUR?

"GO STICK AN ELECTRIC EGG BEATER UP YOUR *** AND THROW THE SWITCH"

Happy?

Anyway - why are you dripping off these mans nuts, Son?

Actually - why the f*** would I care what you think? Stick to the strip malls and Arbys, flyover.

Rogazzle,

Banned in Arizona.

 

[blaze]

My understanding:

Androgenic Alopecia (miniaturization)

Androgen's signal the follicle > follicle enters resting phase > the hair sheds > the follicle re-organizes smaller > a new smaller hair emerges. Repeat the rebirth cycle until the hair follicle dies. Terminal >>>> Vellus.

Chemically induced regrowth

Androgen signals are blocked at the follicle > follicle enters resting phase > the hair sheds > the follicle re-organizes larger > a new larger hair emerges. Repeat the cycle until the hair grows to full thickness. Vellus >>>> Terminal.

I've seen hairs that are thinner at the apex and thicker at the base, but I attribute this to hair shaft age and environmental wear and tear.

I've never seen the opposite.

Whether *you* have seen it or not isnt indicative of whether something is fact or not. As I said earlier, it has already been shown that hair shafts can miniaturize and thicken during growth phases.

 

[Rogazzle]

My understanding:

Androgenic Alopecia (miniaturization)

Androgen's signal the follicle > follicle enters resting phase > the hair sheds > the follicle re-organizes smaller > a new smaller hair emerges. Repeat the rebirth cycle until the hair follicle dies. Terminal >>>> Vellus.

Chemically induced regrowth

Androgen signals are blocked at the follicle > follicle enters resting phase > the hair sheds > the follicle re-organizes larger > a new larger hair emerges. Repeat the cycle until the hair grows to full thickness. Vellus >>>> Terminal.

I've seen hairs that are thinner at the apex and thicker at the base, but I attribute this to hair shaft age and environmental wear and tear.

I've never seen the opposite.

Whether *you* have seen it or not isnt indicative of whether something is fact or not. As I said earlier, it has already been shown that hair shafts can miniaturize and thicken during growth phases.

OK. Fine. I'll give you this, but the change is minimally consequential and restricted, and the changes are minor. The ketoconazole study made light of this.

But from one hair to the next regrowth cycle, there would be a more dramatic change. The kind of changes we are looking for.

Still doesn't resolve the testimonial above about seeing cosmetically visible changes after 7-days. That's just wishful thinking. A subjective evaluation is almost meaningless when estimating microscopic differences like hair shaft diameter. People are notoriously bad at making such evaluations themselves.

Heck, most people think hair grows faster after it's shaved. So what does that tell you?

Bottom line, you need a miniaturization study to show efficacy.

 

[Ende]

But from one hair to the next regrowth cycle, there would be a more dramatic change. The kind of changes we are looking for.

Severely miniaturized hairs needs one or more cycles, but moderately miniaturized hairs may become normal within a month, and that change may be drastic - as in my case. One week is a short time, but the change will often be apparent within 2 - 3 weeks, so who can say it's not possible to see any changes at all within a week, especially at the roots - like el_duterino claims is the first part which gets thicker?

 

[Rogazzle]

But from one hair to the next regrowth cycle, there would be a more dramatic change. The kind of changes we are looking for.

Severely miniaturized hairs needs one or more cycles, but moderately miniaturized hairs may become normal within a month, and that change may be drastic - as in my case. One week is a short time, but the change will often be apparent within 2 - 3 weeks, so who can say it's not possible to see any changes at all within a week, especially at the roots - like el_duterino claims is the first part which gets thicker?

If you can differentiate a moderately miniaturized hair shaft diameter change vs normal hair shaft diameter in one week (assuming approx ~2mm of growth) then you have something fantastic as far as vision goes.

Cheers.

 

[Ende]

No, I agree that 1 week is a too short period, but I think some people may notice increased thickness at the hair shaft after using a potent anti-androgen for a week. This is very easy to see.