azelaic acid and zinc invitro dht inhibition, french study

[CCS]

Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid, by Stamatiadis D, Bulteau-Portois MC, Mowszowicz I., Laboratoire de Biochimie B, Hopital Necker-Enfants-Malades, Paris, France.

The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.
http://www.baldingblog.com/2005/09/19/d ... hair-loss/

i'm sure these concentrations would have to exist inside the scalp, which would mean a topical would need a higher concentration. I wonder what concentration is safe on the skin. Anyone have more information?

1mmol of azelaic acid is 188mg, for you none chemistry buffs. off the top of my head zink is 64mg per mmol. i don't know why the "l" is lower case. it might mean deci-liter instead of liter, which is upper case. anyone know if that is right?

 

[CCS]

azelaic acid has a pKa of 4.55, which means that half of it is dissociated at a pH of 4.55. Since the scalp has a pH of 5, that means it is 70% dissociated? not sure if i calculated that right. i wonder what the invitro pH was, and if they held it contant, and if a topical would change the scalp pH.

 

[btp11]

could you dumb it down a shade for the commoners? :hairy:

 

[CCS]

never mind. i think the pH will be pretty close to scalp pH once it has come into contact with any other vehicle liquids first. nothing to worry about.

i need a place i can get it cheap and concentrated so i can add a drop to a bottle, rather than add 6 topicals per day.

 

[michael barry]

Youre reinventing the wheel here. That study is quite old. Almost nobody believes azelaic acid works in vivo (it doesnt effect sebaceous gland output in tested animals). Too much zinc drives copper from tissues, which hair needs to an extent . There are better anti-androgens for this. As for vitamin b6, it has to be the correct form of it to work (pryxidione is the term I think the correct form is.............).

 

[CCS]

i should post before I buy. Maybe I can give this vit-A and b6 to my roommate.

 

[Bryan]

Youre reinventing the wheel here. That study is quite old. Almost nobody believes azelaic acid works in vivo (it doesnt effect sebaceous gland output in tested animals).

Indeed. That Stamatiadis study has been the subject of vigorous debate almost since Xandrox was first released!

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Re: azelaic acid and zinc invitro dht inhibition, french stu

i'm sure these concentrations would have to exist inside the scalp, which would mean a topical would need a higher concentration. I wonder what concentration is safe on the skin. Anyone have more information?

What concentration is safe on the skin? Well, both Azelix and Skinoren (for acne) are 20% azelaic acid creams...

1mmol of azelaic acid is 188mg, for you none chemistry buffs. off the top of my head zink is 64mg per mmol. i don't know why the "l" is lower case.

I don't know why your "I" is lower-case!

it might mean deci-liter instead of liter, which is upper case. anyone know if that is right?

I've seen people use "ml", when they mean "mL". It's no use complaining about it. People don't care much about details.

Bryan

 

[CCS]

my left shift key stopped working 4 days ago, and it is ruining my sentences. the reason i wondered about the l is I saw an abstract that mentioned something about 500l in a body, but i know 1 L of water is 1kg, and most people are between 60 and 100 kg. it seems like the liter is the only common upper case SI unit.

 

[TA45]

Hey,
Azelic acid work for any you guys??
Tim

 

[Matt27]

Probably the only product I've always got consistent results with has AA in it, along with b6 (the right kind) and zinc (it also has Takanal but I doubt that does anything). If I stop using it my scalp starts to itch exactly where my hair is thinning. Once I resume using it the itch goes away immediately. Because of that I always use it, I basically have no choice or else my scalp itch will return.

 

[CCS]

I never had scalp itch in my life, though I did have tenderness in places at the follicle. Gone now.

AA is supposed to be good for skin redness. I'd like some in a topical, but it is expensive. I think I'll just use it for my face. I think the AA and the B6 are the good stuff. I don't trust the zinc.

 

[squeegee]

What about adding Copper Peptides to the Azelaic Acid/minoxidil?????

 

[CCS]

Re:

Youre reinventing the wheel here. That study is quite old. Almost nobody believes azelaic acid works in vivo (it doesnt effect sebaceous gland output in tested animals). Too much zinc drives copper from tissues, which hair needs to an extent . There are better anti-androgens for this. As for vitamin b6, it has to be the correct form of it to work (pryxidione is the term I think the correct form is.............).

Aw, man. I hope you are wrong. That would be nice if it worked. Ok, so what other topicals then? Free fatty acids? Maybe I should have got the magnessium oxide while I was on that site before paying shipping.

 

[CCS]

What about adding Copper Peptides to the Azelaic Acid/minoxidil?????

most people do, just not in the same bottle. Never know what will react.

 

[CCS]

Probably the only product I've always got consistent results with has AA in it, along with b6 (the right kind) and zinc (it also has Takanal but I doubt that does anything). If I stop using it my scalp starts to itch exactly where my hair is thinning. Once I resume using it the itch goes away immediately. Because of that I always use it, I basically have no choice or else my scalp itch will return.

I suspect azelaic acid is anti-inflammatory.