Avodart vs. Propecia

[EasyEd]

I've been on Finpecia for over 4 months now and am extremely pleased with my results, but I've been noticing that some people feel as if Avodart may be better and more effective. Is this true? What's the difference between the two? I'm not very familiar with Avodart so please fill me in with as much info as you can.

 

[Aplunk1]

If you are having good results with finasteride, then you should stick with it.

Check this out:

http://www.dutasteride.org

http://www.dutasteride.com

 

[Guest]

Now that's what I'm talkin about. Gimme some of that old fashioned crown regrowth, just like that old bastard. :lol:

 

[EasyEd]

If you are having good results with finasteride, then you should stick with it.

Check this out:

http://www.dutasteride.org

http://www.dutasteride.com

These pictures are from Avodart, I assume?

 

[Guest]

yes, they're from avodart, and they were taken six months apart.

 

[EasyEd]

Pretty impressive. I'm having really good success on finasteride though so I'll just stick to it for now.

 

[Guest]

Pretty impressive. I'm having really good success on finasteride though so I'll just stick to it for now.

if you don't want to get as much of your hair back as you can, and better maintenance, then i guess that's a good idea.

 

[bubka]

Pretty impressive. I'm having really good success on finasteride though so I'll just stick to it for now.

good advice, i have had excellent success with finasteride, leaving dutasteride as a backup / last resort in the arsenal

 

[docj077]

I'm not sure why people would even consider leaving avodart as a "last resort". If you're balding, finasteride does not inhibit enough DHT to prevent the male pattern baldness process. In reality, neither does dutasteride (100% inhibition is required), but if you're willing to use an internal 5AR inhibitor, then go for broke.

If propecia stops working for you, then there is pretty much no chance of getting complete regrowth with avodart once you reach that point as the the drug will no longer be capable of overcoming the downstream "permanent" effects of male pattern baldness if you allow propecia to let the process continue for too long.

I don't use either, but I hope that people realize this or maybe I'm just viewing this from an awkward point of view since I'm not even on either drug.

 

[LookingGood!]

I'm not sure why people would even consider leaving avodart as a "last resort". If you're balding, finasteride does not inhibit enough DHT to prevent the male pattern baldness process. In reality, neither does dutasteride (100% inhibition is required), but if you're willing to use an internal 5AR inhibitor, then go for broke.

If propecia stops working for you, then there is pretty much no chance of getting complete regrowth with avodart once you reach that point as the the drug will no longer be capable of overcoming the downstream "permanent" effects of male pattern baldness if you allow propecia to let the process continue for too long.

I don't use either, but I hope that people realize this or maybe I'm just viewing this from an awkward point of view since I'm not even on either drug.

So you are saying that once you go on propecia for extended periods, you are stuck with it b/c if you go off you will suffer serious permanant effects in the form of serious shedding?

 

[LookingGood!]

Pretty impressive. I'm having really good success on finasteride though so I'll just stick to it for now.

if you don't want to get as much of your hair back as you can, and better maintenance, then i guess that's a good idea.

I dont believe there has ever been a Meta-analysis comparing the 2 drugs. Yes in theory Avodart should grow more hair b/c it inhibits both forms of DHT but where is the data that shows greater hair counts? Pics mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[docj077]

I'm not sure why people would even consider leaving avodart as a "last resort". If you're balding, finasteride does not inhibit enough DHT to prevent the male pattern baldness process. In reality, neither does dutasteride (100% inhibition is required), but if you're willing to use an internal 5AR inhibitor, then go for broke.

If propecia stops working for you, then there is pretty much no chance of getting complete regrowth with avodart once you reach that point as the the drug will no longer be capable of overcoming the downstream "permanent" effects of male pattern baldness if you allow propecia to let the process continue for too long.

I don't use either, but I hope that people realize this or maybe I'm just viewing this from an awkward point of view since I'm not even on either drug.

So you are saying that once you go on propecia for extended periods, you are stuck with it b/c if you go off you will suffer serious permanant effects in the form of serious shedding?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that neither drug will completely prevent hair loss in the long term as neither drug offers 100% 5AR inhibition. They work at long as the DHT mediated downstream release of TGF-beta and fibrosis do not overwhelm the increase in IGF-1 associated with these treatments.

 

[The Gardener]

More great results -

Before:

After:

 

[Aplunk1]

That looks like a mixture of blood, feces, and bugs put all over the crown.

 

[Guest]

I'm not sure why people would even consider leaving avodart as a "last resort". If you're balding, finasteride does not inhibit enough DHT to prevent the male pattern baldness process. In reality, neither does dutasteride (100% inhibition is required), but if you're willing to use an internal 5AR inhibitor, then go for broke.

If propecia stops working for you, then there is pretty much no chance of getting complete regrowth with avodart once you reach that point as the the drug will no longer be capable of overcoming the downstream "permanent" effects of male pattern baldness if you allow propecia to let the process continue for too long.

I don't use either, but I hope that people realize this or maybe I'm just viewing this from an awkward point of view since I'm not even on either drug.

So you are saying that once you go on propecia for extended periods, you are stuck with it b/c if you go off you will suffer serious permanant effects in the form of serious shedding?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that neither drug will completely prevent hair loss in the long term as neither drug offers 100% 5AR inhibition. They work at long as the DHT mediated downstream release of TGF-beta and fibrosis do not overwhelm the increase in IGF-1 associated with these treatments.

well 2.5 mg a day of dutasteride blocks like 100% of type II DHT, or at least 99.9%

0.5 mg a day blocks 98.5% of type II in the follicles. You say that the male pattern baldness may start to progress again after a few years on the drug, but the person on it may thin less than 10% as fast as they would have otherwise, right? Becuase having only 1.5% of original DHT circulating would be much better than having the full amount. So if it would have taken you 3 years to go from NW3 to NW4 without taking anything, it may take you 20+ years to go down a full Norwood when on Avodart, right?

 

[Guest]

Pretty impressive. I'm having really good success on finasteride though so I'll just stick to it for now.

if you don't want to get as much of your hair back as you can, and better maintenance, then i guess that's a good idea.

I dont believe there has ever been a Meta-analysis comparing the 2 drugs. Yes in theory Avodart should grow more hair b/c it inhibits both forms of DHT but where is the data that shows greater hair counts? Pics mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

No I think it grows more because of the extra type II inhibited. I remember seeing a study that showed Avodart gave 50% more regrowth than Propecia. They compared the Avodart results to the Propecia studies.

 

[Bryan]

No I think it grows more because of the extra type II inhibited. I remember seeing a study that showed Avodart gave 50% more regrowth than Propecia.

Well, actually, Glaxo found that the Avodart dosage of dutasteride grew 30% more hair than the Proscar dosage of finasteride, but that's a little misleading. The proper way to look at it is to compare the performance of the two drugs versus placebo. When you do it that way, the correct way, Avodart is 22% better than Proscar.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

No I think it grows more because of the extra type II inhibited. I remember seeing a study that showed Avodart gave 50% more regrowth than Propecia.

Well, actually, Glaxo found that the Avodart dosage of dutasteride grew 30% more hair than the Proscar dosage of finasteride, but that's a little misleading. The proper way to look at it is to compare the performance of the two drugs versus placebo. When you do it that way, the correct way, Avodart is 22% better than Proscar.

Bryan

Ah okay, 22%. But that's at 5 mg of Proscar right? most people here on finasteride are on it at either 1.25 mg per day or 1 mg, and so Avodart may regrow around 30% more hair than Propecia dosage of finasteride when 0.5 mg Avodart and 1 mg finasteride are compared to placebo?

What do you think of my post above that one, Bryan? I pasted it below:

well 2.5 mg a day of dutasteride blocks like 100% of type II DHT, or at least 99.9%

0.5 mg a day blocks 98.5% of type II in the follicles. You say that the male pattern baldness may start to progress again after a few years on the drug, but the person on it may thin less than 10% as fast as they would have otherwise, right? Becuase having only 1.5% of original DHT circulating would be much better than having the full amount. So if it would have taken you 3 years to go from NW3 to NW4 without taking anything, it may take you 20+ years to go down a full Norwood when on Avodart, right?

I actually think its possible that it may take longer than 20 years even for most people. I just don't understand how someone could continue to thin rapidly when they've cut type II DHT by 98.5% with Avodart. By my logic above though, people who get on Avodart at the Norwood 2 level or before may never progress past Norwood 3 because once you start to thin again on the drug, a few years down the line, the thinning will be so dramatically slow that you die before ever reaching the Norwood grade you would have without meds. What do you think? I know that there are other androgens at play as well besides DHT, but DHT is by far the most potent one so it seems that eliminating 98.5% of it would do a ton of good.

 

[Guest]

Bump for Bryan

 

[powersam]

see my hairloss has been halted by avodart, but i dont think i'll get any regrowth till i stop smoking, start eating a low gi diet, and doing some regular exercise. cutting dht is necessary but other factors such as inflammation need to be addressed.