Avodart vs Propecia

sam-

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--In patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) treated with dutasteride 0.5 mg/day for 4 years, the median decrease in serum DHT was 94% at 1 year, 93% at 2 years, and 95% at both 3 and 4 years.

http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_avodart.pdf
http://www.stophairlossnow.co.uk/Avodar ... opecia.htm

also read this success story:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=13746



:idea: Isn’t that great since the DHT level remains the same even after 4 years of treatment, unlike Propecia which start losses its efficiency from year 2.
 

Cornholio

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sam- said:
Isn’t that great since the DHT level remains the same even after 4 years of treatment, unlike Propecia which start losses its efficiency from year 2.

I dont know that propecia loses its ability to supress DHT at 4 or 5 years... I think that it would still result in an average 70% reduction in serum DHT. With this level of supression of DHT some users are reporting that hair loss is progressing, and therefore they MIGHT benefit from the greater total DHT reduction possible with Dutasteride (>90%). As some of this incremental reduction in DHT is due to blocking the type I 5AR enzyme (whose significance in hair-loss is unproven) proving the actual long term clinical superiority of dutasteride over finasteride for hair maintenence would require a long term study. As this hasn't been done, you have to use the Phase II Avodart study and imagine what might happen if the study had continued past 6 months (not very scientific), or take the drug yourself as a "study of 1" and see what happens.

Personally I am very glad dutasteride is available, but wish that studies were in progress to identify the ideal dose and to document long term efficacy...
 

drinkrum

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sam- said:
--In patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) treated with dutasteride 0.5 mg/day for 4 years, the median decrease in serum DHT was 94% at 1 year, 93% at 2 years, and 95% at both 3 and 4 years.

http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_avodart.pdf
http://www.stophairlossnow.co.uk/Avodar ... opecia.htm

also read this success story:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=13746



:idea: Isn’t that great since the DHT level remains the same even after 4 years of treatment, unlike Propecia which start losses its efficiency from year 2.

I've said it a million times and so has Bryan. Propecia never loses its efficiency ... ever! It continues to block DHT at the same rate as before. However, your baldness might accelerate, causing baldness to reappear while still on finasteride. Nobody knows for sure what causes baldness to accelerate, but it's theorized that it may be due to the hair becoming more and more sensitive to DHT.

D.
 

Johnny24601

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re:

I have been cnvinced that dutasteride inhibits more DHT, but I have not been convinced that it is safe!
 

Resultsnottypical

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Has anyone seen any newer pics of that guy? THose are over a year old, aren't they?

Curious how he is doing since.
 

sam-

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I just want to understand why GlaxoSmithKline did not mention that growing hair is a side effect of Avodart :!: :!: :!:
:pensativo:
 

Slartibartfast

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sam- said:
Dutasteride levels: 90% serem, 55% scalp
Finasteride equiv: 70% serem, 38% scalp.
I seem to remember Bryan talking about these figures and how another, contradictory study demonstrated that scalp and serum DHT levels decrease by broadly similar amounts - in percentage terms.

Edit - Just found this:

Drake L, Hordinsky M, Fiedler V, et al.

J Am Acad Dermatol. 1999 Oct; 41(4):550-4.

OBJECTIVE: We attempted to determine the effect of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgens. METHODS: Men with androgenetic alopecia (N = 249) underwent scalp biopsies before and after receiving 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, or 5 mg daily of finasteride or placebo for 42 days.

RESULTS: Scalp skin DHT levels declined significantly by 13.0% with placebo and by 14.9%, 61.6%, 56. 5%, 64.1%, and 69.4% with 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg doses of finasteride, respectively. Serum DHT levels declined significantly (P <.001) by 49.5%, 68.6%, 71.4%, and 72.2% in the 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg finasteride treatment groups, respectively.

So there was still a discrepancy between scalp and serum DHT reduction - 7.3% at 1mg of Finasteride - but nowhere near as large as the figures you quoted suggest.

Slarti
 

sam-

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Update:

Finasteride vs Dutasteride study:

This study compared the inhibition of different genetic variants of 5-alpha reductase type II by both finasteride and dutasteride. 5-alpha reductase type II is the enzyme responsible for converting testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT). It’s present in both the prostate and the skin and hair follicles. Increased DHT and/or increased sensitivity towards it had been linked to both male pattern baldness (male pattern baldness) and prostate cancer. Perhaps not surprisingly there’s also a link between male pattern baldness and prostate cancer.

Finasteride and dutasteride are both competitive inhibitors of 5-alpha reductase type II (though dutasteride also inhibits 5-ar type I), meaning that they compete with testosterone in binding to it. If finasteride or dutasteride binds to the enzyme then testosterone can’t and no conversion to DHT can be performed by that enzyme molecule for as long as the inhibitor is in place. Both substances are used to treat an enlarged prostate. Finasteride has also been used as a prostate cancer preventative medication. It’s sold in a 5mg pill under the name Proscar to treat enlarged prostates and in a 1mg version under the name Propecia as a hair loss treatment.

The gene coding for 5-alpha reductase exists in several different forms and some variants affect both the incidence and the progression of cancer in the prostate. In this study the effect of finasteride and dutasteride was measured on several constitutional and somatic genetic variants of 5-alpha reductase type II. Constitutional cells are germ-line cells, meaning sperms and eggs, somatic cells are all other cells in the body. In this case the somatic cells were cancer cells from the prostate.

The result was that the genotype of the 5-alpha reductase type II enzyme governed how effective the inhibition was, and furthermore it showed that while dutasteride was a more effective inhibitor in most cases, that wasn’t true in all of them. How different genotypes govern the effectiveness of a pharmaceutical is called pharmacogenetics. A genetic difference in an enzyme doesn’t have to mean that it’s affected differently by a drug per se, but when it is, it’s said to be phamacogenetically as well as genetically different.

The study also demonstrated that both finasteride and dutasteride are slow, time-dependent inhibitors, meaning inhibition is lower at first but increases with time.

Dutasteride was shown to be more effective and showed less variation in inhibition of the different genotypes of 5-alpha reductase type II than finasteride. In a few genotypes, finasteride showed better inhibition than dutasteride, indicating that genotyping of patients would be beneficial when choosing treatment. This also provides a possible answer as to why some people who treat their hair loss with finasteride see a lot of improvement when they switch to dutasteride, and why a few instead notice a worsening of their condition. It may very well be due to some genotypes responding better to one drug than the other.

From a statistical standpoint, dutasteride is more likely to provide better results, but if finasteride seems more effective for you, despite the theoretically lower inhibition, then you might benefit from sticking to it after all.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/hair_loss_n ... mmentID=43
:study:
 

nohairnodandruff

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Umm, if you read even further, you'll find out he uses minoxidil 5%, this may account for his sudden growth.
 

nyuevan

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weight gain

been on avodart for 3 months and have been putting on a good amount of weight despite increased training and a clean diet. Have others also had the same result from the hormone manipulation?
 

Bryan

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Slartibartfast said:
sam- said:
Dutasteride levels: 90% serem, 55% scalp
Finasteride equiv: 70% serem, 38% scalp.
I seem to remember Bryan talking about these figures and how another, contradictory study demonstrated that scalp and serum DHT levels decrease by broadly similar amounts - in percentage terms.

Exactly. Those specific numbers Sam quoted don't mean diddly-squat.

Bryan
 
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