Avodart Questions.

[Chipper]

Is there anybody that was on the drug for over a year, who got bad skin side effects such as wrinkles; did any of the wrinkles go away after quitting the drug?

I've been off the drug for a little over four months and nothing is changing. Scabs still are not healing. The wrinkles around my whole eye area keep getting worse. I've aged considerably. And i hate myself for ever taking this drug knowing it wasn't FDA approved for hairloss. I'm afraid it's to late and the damage is already done and irreversable.

One other question. Do you all think i would have a good chance of sueing them? I have the proof to show my side effects to a lawyer. I mean if GSK listed the premature ageing side effects on on the side effects list, i wouldn't of ever even consider taking this drug. I do realize i took it "off-label", but still they should of reported the premature ageing side effect instead of trying to weisel out of it in order to make more money. Whats your guys thoughts?

 

[drinkrum]

Is there anybody that was on the drug for over a year, who got bad skin side effects such as wrinkles; did any of the wrinkles go away after quitting the drug?

I've been off the drug for a little over four months and nothing is changing. Scabs still are not healing. The wrinkles around my whole eye area keep getting worse. I've aged considerably. And i hate myself for ever taking this drug knowing it wasn't FDA approved for hairloss. I'm afraid it's to late and the damage is already done and irreversable.

One other question. Do you all think i would have a good chance of sueing them? I have the proof to show my side effects to a lawyer. I mean if GSK listed the premature ageing side effects on on the side effects list, i wouldn't of ever even consider taking this drug. I do realize i took it "off-label", but still they should of reported the premature ageing side effect instead of trying to weisel out of it in order to make more money. Whats your guys thoughts?

You would not stand a chance in court since you took it off-label. It is not meant for hair loss -- it is for BPH. Those side effects are not irreversible. Those effects you mentioned are consistent with some research on dual 5-alpha reductase inhibitors and with comments from other users. Get off the dutasteride!

D.

 

[VWdude]

The things people would do for their hair!

 

[Guest]

Is there anybody that was on the drug for over a year, who got bad skin side effects such as wrinkles; did any of the wrinkles go away after quitting the drug?

I've been off the drug for a little over four months and nothing is changing. Scabs still are not healing. The wrinkles around my whole eye area keep getting worse. I've aged considerably. And i hate myself for ever taking this drug knowing it wasn't FDA approved for hairloss. I'm afraid it's to late and the damage is already done and irreversable.

One other question. Do you all think i would have a good chance of sueing them? I have the proof to show my side effects to a lawyer. I mean if GSK listed the premature ageing side effects on on the side effects list, i wouldn't of ever even consider taking this drug. I do realize i took it "off-label", but still they should of reported the premature ageing side effect instead of trying to weisel out of it in order to make more money. Whats your guys thoughts?

You would not stand a chance in court since you took it off-label. It is not meant for hair loss -- it is for BPH. Those side effects are not irreversible. Those effects you mentioned are consistent with some research on dual 5-alpha reductase inhibitors and with comments from other users. Get off the dutasteride!

D.

Btw hair transplant docs recommend Dutasteride - a lot of people use it.

I know what chipper is saying because my skin has been dryer in places since starting. Cuts have healed fine, but I've only been on it 3 months.

dutasteride is supposed to be a better version of finasteride. On the hair side, my hair has been worse. As for the skin side, chipper may have a point. I'm unsure.

Anyone else?

 

[drinkrum]

A "better version" of finasteride? They are two different compounds -- how can one be seen as a revamped version of the other? While dutasteride unarguably blocks more DHT than finasteride and results in higher hair counts, there are some major issues with its safety. I've posted about this in many threads in the past and won't rehash here, but your thinking is not right, Gunner.

Sure, hair loss docs might prescribe you dutasteride. Then you would sue them if sh*t hits the fan. Why would you sue GSK? They deem this drug to be used for BPH not male pattern baldness. It's the Doctor's burden if he prescribes it off label.

D.

 

[Cornholio]

If you bought the drug online through a pharmacy without a prescription for a purpose the manufacturer never intended AND are claiming a side-effect that is not supported by the literature you dont have much of a case against GSK. There is presumably no physician involved (though if there was and he discussed known risks/benefits and documented the discussion he may not be liable either) so there isnt liability there. In fact I bet that GSK specifies that their med should only be used with a prescription, protecting them in that case. I would say that if you went online and ordered meds for purposes they werent approved for and arent happy with the results there is nobody to blame but yourself as you were acting as physician and prescribing it for hairloss "offlable" and without a medical license.

I havent noticed any skin changes on dutasteride, but its only been 5 weeks (though at higher doses than .5mg).

 

[iamnaked]

Two observations. People who tend to post on hairloss websites tend to be the worst of hypochondriacs. f*****g anything happening change-wise will instantly lead to them assuming the worst. Secondly, the kind of person who takes an unproven medicine like dutasteride is vastly more likely to take other stuff with it, which casts doubt on their claims that their sides are from dutasteride. I don't believe its a bad drug. I've been on it 3 months now, and I've experienced no side effects.

 

[Deaner]

I'd like to, at this point in time, re-iterate my disgust with people who try to sue companies for anything and everything. Clearly the Avodart has already rotted your balls off, cuz a real man wouldn't go around asking if they could sue a company for using the medication off-label. How about you bring your missing nuts to court and use that as evidence?

Ugh.

 

[Solo]

I don´t know anything about the legal system of the USA (except fron John Grisham´s books) but IMO taking legal action against a company for using their product in an unpurposed way is simply inmoral. And it is like throwing stones to your own home´s windows, becouse they are the guys who have the money for research. You can see them as evil companies w/ an desperate greed for money, but there´s no other institution in the world who has the money, the interest, and the human resources you need to do a serious research. It´s the way it goes.

 

[Cornholio]

I don´t know anything about the legal system of the USA (except fron John Grisham´s books) but IMO taking legal action against a company for using their product in an unpurposed way is simply inmoral

In America it is our custom to sue somebody if there is even the remotest possibility that they a)have a lot of money b) were in any way involved in, close to, or alive at the time when our alleged injury (however minor) occurred and failed to prevent it from happening. This is based on our constitution, which I have not read, but which I understand to clearly state that we have the right to grow to an old age without ever having to take responsibility for our own actions. If bad things happen we all have the right and responsibility to sue somebody.

While in America on Vacation try to 1) have coffee spilled on you in a drive-thru... this can be worth millions 2) trip on a pot-hole in the road (dont forget to see a chiropractor who will back up your claims of unimaginable pain and suffering) 3) eat lots of fast food, as it is only a matter of time before the "people versus McDonalds, the evil empire that made us fat" class action lawsuit gets underway. You dont want to miss that payday : )

 

[Solo]

In America it is our custom to sue somebody if there is even the remotest possibility that they a)have a lot of money b) were in any way involved in, close to, or alive at the time when our alleged injury (however minor) occurred and failed to prevent it from happening. This is based on our constitution, which I have not read, but which I understand to clearly state that we have the right to grow to an old age without ever having to take responsibility for our own actions. If bad things happen we all have the right and responsibility to sue somebody.

While in America on Vacation try to 1) have coffee spilled on you in a drive-thru... this can be worth millions 2) trip on a pot-hole in the road (dont forget to see a chiropractor who will back up your claims of unimaginable pain and suffering) 3) eat lots of fast food, as it is only a matter of time before the "people versus McDonalds, the evil empire that made us fat" class action lawsuit gets underway. You dont want to miss that payday : )

ha haha...

I was told about that, it´s funny. Well, I spent some time in the USA, working in a restaurant, and travelling around. One day I was going to work in my bike, and a motherfucking car hit me, and the bastard runned away, like if the devil was pusuiting him. It was not a serious hit and run accident, (majorly I got some pain the *** ) but I think if there wouldn´t be that panic for sueing people on everything, he would have stopped and helped me or give me a lift to my job or something, which would have been the regular human behaviour. Also, and that´s funny, two huge black fat-asses outside of a Dunkin´ Donuts nearby, started laughing on me, with my ridiculous uniform and my broken bike in my hand, so I hated very very much your legal system in my way to work... :roll:

 

[global]

Is there anybody that was on the drug for over a year, who got bad skin side effects such as wrinkles; did any of the wrinkles go away after quitting the drug?

I've been off the drug for a little over four months and nothing is changing. Scabs still are not healing. The wrinkles around my whole eye area keep getting worse. I've aged considerably. And i hate myself for ever taking this drug knowing it wasn't FDA approved for hairloss. I'm afraid it's to late and the damage is already done and irreversable.

One other question. Do you all think i would have a good chance of sueing them? I have the proof to show my side effects to a lawyer. I mean if GSK listed the premature ageing side effects on on the side effects list, i wouldn't of ever even consider taking this drug. I do realize i took it "off-label", but still they should of reported the premature ageing side effect instead of trying to weisel out of it in order to make more money. Whats your guys thoughts?

You would not stand a chance in court since you took it off-label. It is not meant for hair loss -- it is for BPH. Those side effects are not irreversible. Those effects you mentioned are consistent with some research on dual 5-alpha reductase inhibitors and with comments from other users. Get off the dutasteride!

D.

Drinkrum can you post any evidence you have of 5AR negative effects on skin?

 

[drinkrum]

Sure, I'll try to hunt them down when I get a chance. But the side effect seems quite obvious. Type I 5-alpha reductase is find primarily in the skin and liver, whereas Type II is found in the prostate. Since dutasteride inhibits the DHT in the skin and finasteride does not, it would be logical to assume dutasteride might carry some skin side effects as hormones are necessary to maintain the character of skin (its elasticity, moistness, etc.).

D.

 

[Cornholio]

Females have a much lower level of androgens and DHT and somehow manage to have skin that ages "normally"...

(This is where someone will post that women age faster than men, but I really dont see that and would need proof. I think the only truth to that is that normal aging changes of the skin are not accepted in women (less so than for men, that is men dont dread "crow's feet."))

The fact that 5AR is in male skin and liver does not necessarily mean that without them male skin (or liver) would suffer any more without the DHT produced.

(This is where someone will post that the body is a finely tuned mechanism that cannot be so casually disturbed... but that is not proof of harm)

I worry a little more about the reflex increase in testosterone that DHT brings... Testosterone hasnt done many good things for men beyond increasing muscle mass. We get hair loss, worse cholesterol and die younger. Im hoping that that effect isnt amplified as DHT is supressed... but Im not holding my breath for the study to be done (could be a while).

 

[global]

Sure, I'll try to hunt them down when I get a chance. But the side effect seems quite obvious. Type I 5-alpha reductase is find primarily in the skin and liver, whereas Type II is found in the prostate. Since dutasteride inhibits the DHT in the skin and finasteride does not, it would be logical to assume dutasteride might carry some skin side effects as hormones are necessary to maintain the character of skin (its elasticity, moistness, etc.).

D.

I see how less DHT would mean less oiliness, and drier skin=more wrinkles, but wouldnt this be easily remedied by applying a moisturiser?

If you have any other info on more profound changes it'd be interesting to see.

 

[drinkrum]

Females have a much lower level of androgens and DHT and somehow manage to have skin that ages "normally"...

(This is where someone will post that women age faster than men, but I really dont see that and would need proof. I think the only truth to that is that normal aging changes of the skin are not accepted in women (less so than for men, that is men dont dread "crow's feet."))

The fact that 5AR is in male skin and liver does not necessarily mean that without them male skin (or liver) would suffer any more without the DHT produced.

(This is where someone will post that the body is a finely tuned mechanism that cannot be so casually disturbed... but that is not proof of harm)

Females have more estrogens than men -- this helps with the skin situation. Just ask GeminiX about the effect of taking antiandrogens and estrogen therapy on his skin.

Generally, I agree with you about 5-AR. It probably doesn't hurt the skin or the liver too much. What I am primarily concerned about is the central nervous system effects of a dual-inhibitor like dutasteride.

D.

 

[GeminiX]

I can certainly vouch for the skin! It changs texture so much it's hardly believeable; incredibly soft and smooth.

D

 

[Cornholio]

I can certainly vouch for the skin! It changs texture so much it's hardly believeable; incredibly soft and smooth.

D

really? estrogen? Thats wierd. They are softer for a reason...

Well, here's another side-effect you wont see posted for dutasteride, but its the ONLY ONE ive noticed. I have a smaller bladder.. By that I mean I now have to get up once at night to pass urine, when before that was unusual unless I had had something to drink. Isnt that odd? When on a long car ride it was always mom or my sister who would ask to stop. The guys always laughed about this, but now :freaked: IM NOTICING THE SAME THING... Meaning (entirely unproven) it is DHT (no evidence for this, im just being paranoid) that allows men to ride for hours in a car (while making fun of women when they ask to stop) without taking a leak. One more lost male superpower (the other one is the ability to bald) due to dutasteride... Well, on thinking about it I can live with that, but it is wierd.

PS dont say its BPH prostate hypertrophy, because Im 37 and too young for that (dont you disagree with me) just like im too young for male pattern baldness.

 

[GeminiX]

Interestingly, I've noticed that I often get up in the middle of the night now to visit the toilet too (Something I never used to have to do up until a year or so ago).

D

 

[Bryan]

...whereas Type II is found in the prostate.

Hey, don't forget hair follicles! :wink:

Bryan